1911Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
While I`ve had multiple type weapons for the past 25 years, I finally ventured into the 1911 design with a Colt Defender. I know Browning designed the 1911 to be carried cocked and locked but it just goes against the grain to strap one on with the hammer back. Actually makes me cringe since it`s so alien to what I`m used to doing. However, I suppose I can get used to it.
Question is, do you guys leave yours C&L`d all the time or if not, what do you do when you put it up ? It would seem that lowering the hammer with one in the pipe is just looking for an negligent discharge and racking the slide to eject the round would cause undue wear and tear on the rims of the rounds if not the weapon itself. Wouldn`t C&L`d all the time also cause premature wear on the mainspring and other associated parts ? Awaiting your sage advice...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
DaStray,
There are far more knowledgable people here than I but for what it's worth, I carry
condition 1 (Cocked and Locked)
When removing the weapon at home, I drop the mag and clear the chamber then return the weapon to condition 3 (Loaded mag inserted, no round in chamber, hammer down).
When storing, the weapon goes to condition 5,
(no mag inserted, no ammo in mag).

DO NOT, this can't be stressed enough, DO NOT lower that hammer on a chambered round unless you are aimed at a proper target and are lowering the hammer by pulling trigger.


------------------
Three Blocks Long and Two Lanes Wide...

[This message has been edited by Buickguy (edited 10-16-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
I've kept 1911's in condition one (Cocked and Locked) for months at a time with no perceivable ill effects. If you have a seperate home defense weapon (I now rely on a shotgun at home), I'd clear it when putting it into the safe.

As far as carrying cocked and locked and feeling uncomfortable, do what I and probly most everyone else here did to ease your mind. Carry around the house doing normal activity in your concealment gear with an empty gun. After a week or so (Maybe sooner) you will realize as we have that it's as safe to carry a 1911 in condition 1 than any other pistol you can think of. As long as your holster protects the thumb safety and completely covers the trigger guard, there is no fear of the pistol going off by itself.

Rick


------------------
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Thomas Jefferson


[This message has been edited by Bandit (edited 10-16-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
I leave my defensive gun C&L 24/7 except when cleaning after a practice session. I rack the slide to eject the defensive round that is chambered before a practice session with target ammo. My rounds show very little sign of rim wear. Nothing to worry about.

My other 1911's that are in the gun safe are unloaded. No reason to keep them C&L if they are just going to be stored. After all if I had to open a safe to get a defensive gun, I have already lost. My Officers Model is either on my side or at arms reach at night.

MadDog
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,337 Posts
Bandit, I tell people to carry it around the house with no holster, unloaded, cocked and NOT locked. Even with all these factors going against you, you'll find it does not drop the hammer. Then go for a while with the safety on to prove to yourself that the safety won't come off (which it won't uinless it has an improperly light detent, easy to fix).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Originally posted by DaStray:
racking the slide to eject the round would cause undue wear and tear on the rims of the rounds if not the weapon itself...
What I do is "demote" my defensive ammo to practice ammo every six months or so. The new ammo isn't terribly expensive, and you get a chance to practice with the ammo you carry

------------------
Three Blocks Long and Two Lanes Wide...

[This message has been edited by Buickguy (edited 10-16-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,058 Posts
DaStray - C&L is the only safe/sane way to carry a 1911 ready for immediate use. There are multiple "safeties" built in that prevent a properly functioning C&L 1911 from accidentally discharging. When you take the gun off at night leave it C&L, it won't hurt the mainspring at all. A 1911 can be left C&L forever without suffering spring set or any other parts fatigue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,204 Posts
Welcome, DaStray, ditto on what Ned and others have said. Carry the pistol unloaded around the house, it will not do anything unless the trigger is pulled. The only time my "keep my tubbyself safe" 1911 is not C&L is when I'm at the range shooting or when I'm cleaning it. I've carried C&L since 1964 or '65 and never had the hammer fall unless I pulled the trigger.

Do you have repeating shotgun? When you think of it, a loaded shotgun (round in the chamber, safety on) is C&L except you can not see the hammer. The same thing applies to most repeating rifles. You can not see the striker/hammer being cocked.

BTW, what's your next 1911 gonna be?

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
MOLON LABE
Leonidas c 480 BC
FFF

[This message has been edited by Jim V (edited 10-16-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
Originally posted by Ned Christiansen:
Bandit, I tell people to carry it around the house with no holster, unloaded, cocked and NOT locked. Even with all these factors going against you, you'll find it does not drop the hammer. Then go for a while with the safety on to prove to yourself that the safety won't come off (which it won't uinless it has an improperly light detent, easy to fix).

Good point and excellent advice to further engrain the fact that it's safe to carry a 1911 cocked and locked..

Rick



------------------
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Thomas Jefferson
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
Originally posted by Buickguy:
What I do is "demote" my defensive ammo to practice ammo every six months or so. The new ammo isn't terribly expensive, and you get a chance to practice with the ammo you carry
I'd have to second that sage advice. Other than your weapon, the best advantage you have against a potential threat is confidence in your ammo and your pistols ability to feed it reliably.

Rick


------------------
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Thomas Jefferson
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
I bought a Charles Daly Compact model last April, and I too was a bit skittish about carrying cocked and locked for awhile. I asked for, and received lots of good techniques from folks on this forum at that time, and I'm quite comfortable now. I do, however, use an IWB holster with a thumb break, just as another safeguard (Bianchi 3S Pistol Pocket). BTW......probably THE best advice has been given previously. Carry around the house, etc., unloaded for a few days, and you will become comfortable with your pistol and your daily routine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,337 Posts
10EC, that's a good additional step for somebody getting "broken in" to carrying in condition one-- good suggestion. None of the holsters I use at this time have a thumbreak, but mainly because they just don't happen to come that way. I would not feel encumbered by one, or like it made me appear a "beginner". As long as it's they kind that goes under the hammer and not over the grip safety, a thumbstrap is vertually no hinderance to a draw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
589 Posts
This subject thread has sure helped me feel even more confident in the 1911 pistol design. Thanks everyone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
If youre a hunter, think about the time youve spent walking in the woods with a rifle at the ready except for the safety being engaged. I was skittish about C&L with a 1911 until I realized I'd been doing it for years already and never worried about it. Prove to yourself that the safeties work, then use them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
DaStray you are in good company. Actully I would be concerned if you did not have reservations about C&L carry. Most people who carry C&L now started as those outlined above. I did. IMHO as a new 1911 shooter comfidance in the weapon comes from knowledge of its manual of arms. Its limits and strengths. The 1911 is thin and easly hidden. Yet is is relitivly heavy-a fact I find it comforting instead of uncomfortable.

A quality holster is a very nessary item along with a specific belt for firearms carry. Wheather it is a belt or inside-the-waistband type you will need to think about thumb straps.

Thumb straps are suductive and convey a sence of security. Some say they slow down grip index and the draw. Some say it is not so.

As you handle the 1911. Its safty systems will help gain cofidence. The grip safty blocks the trigger untill depressed. A thumb safty blocks the hammer.The hammer has a half cock notch designed to capture the sear in case of failure, a shelf //Colt's Series 80// serves the same function. Current Kimber and Colt guns have firing pin blocks. Both require grip safty deactivation. The Colt needs a trigger press. I keep my 1911 in condition 1 at all times save shooting or when cleaning. True springs do tyre and that is a maintance issue. Please keep us informed on your progress. Teal Blue

[This message has been edited by Teal Blue (edited 10-17-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
DaStray: See my post on the same subject at Mich. Coalition for Responsible Gun Ownwers(www.mcrgo.org) under General discussion forum. The 1911 was not designed to be carried C&L'd . The Cocked and Locked concept was developed by Jeff Cooper and Chapman during the 50's! I carry 1911s C&L'd but I shoot several thousand rounds in 1911s in competition. It's a comfort zone issue....dont do it if youre not 110% comfortable and confident with the 1911 design! There are two safeties on the 1911(3 on Series 80 and some newer desins). Problems occur when holding the gun(grip safety now off) and disengaging the thumb safety to load or unload the gun. The anti C&L'd people say there's only 8/1000" of metal holding the hammer back from a hot round in the chamber when both safeties are disengaged. This is not an issue if the gun is in good working condition and the owner is familiar with the design. Most accidental discharges occurr when the operator is handling the 1911 with both safeties disengaged ie; loading and unloading! Hope that helps!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
when I carry my Colt it is cocked and locked. I think that knowing the hammer is back creates a little anxiety in folks sometimes. boo-coo cops in America carry Glocks with chambered rounds and no safety whatsoever ever day. now that to me is more freaky than a cocked/locked 1911!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
I'm not dissagreeing with anyone here. I carry my Para-Ord's c&l and on half cock depending on what I'm doing or where I am. However, if c&l bothers you consider a Para-Ordnance LDA. It has an unbelievable DA trigger that eliminates the c&l hammer.

------------------
Gun crontrol is being able to hit what you aim at
NRA Life Member
Hunter for life
Biker for life
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I want to thank all who responded to my original post. Some excellent advice from the people who know. I`ll just have to trust the design and get used to it.
I`m a member of other forum`s too and I have to say that this is one of the better. Thanks again...
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top