[James]

I wonder how many times this subject has been discussed since the inception of this forum?

Way WAY WAAAAYYYYYYYY too many.

 

[James]

One of the most heated arguments involving handguns is the proper carry method of the 1911 semi-automatic pistol, or any other single-action semi-auto. I’ve found that those who carry single-action pistols are relentless in their convictions, either adamantly for carrying them “cocked-and-locked" or carrying on an empty chamber.

What say ye...

I don't know anybody personally that currently carries any handgun with an empty chamber.

 

[James]

I don't know anybody personally that currently carries any handgun with an empty chamber.

Are you familiar with the Colt SAA?

The last person I knew personally that actually carried a Colt SAA died 15 years ago.

 

[James]

Condition 0, at home unloaded, locked in the safe
Condition 1, hammer down on an empty chamber
Condition 2, hammer down on a live round in the chamber
Condition 3, cocked and locked

Not sure there's a real question here if I'm carrying it for protection.

Grumpy

I think your grade is 20% - not passing.

 

[James]

Bottom line is I've never put much faith in feelings. There is a correct way to do everything. Your comfort feelings have nothing to do with right or wrong. By the way, cocked and "locked" is the correct way for even a glock. Feelings may determine if you do it, but has nothing to do with being correct or not.

But Glocks don't fully cock nor do they lock...

Now I feel like I am really confused.

 

[James]

A person could argue that a Glock is really just partially-cocked and unlocked, but I still say Condition 0 because for all practical purposes the weapon will fire with just a short pull of the trigger. They're not like a revolver (despite Glock's advertising claims) as the degree of trigger travel and weight required to fire is far less than what a DA revolver needs in order to fire.

People are more than welcome to make their own choices, but I will only carry a striker-fired auto that has a manual safety, and I carry it in the equivalent of Condition 1 with a round chambered and the safety applied.

There is a nifty aftermarket trigger that makes them full semi cocked..it gets you the rest of the way to condition 0 and is not recommended for carry. It is going to work well with the red dot when YVK convinces me to fully adopt it.

 

[James]

Well boys, did we solve the debate this time? If we get it resolved, let me know which is a better caliber - 9mm or 45acp. Lol

I still have a full length guide rod that I sometimes use when I need extreme accuracy.

 

[James]

I did my best to stay out of this but you had to
A lot of people have had issues with Timney triggers around here, so much so that I've not been interested in one.

I have no problems with carrying strikers in appendix, with or without manual safety. Then again, I am known to have balls of steel. I do like safety or striker control device for handling reasons.

Ernest Langdon has a rather hilarious monologue that he does in his classes sometimes, in regards to strikers and carry, it is called "because they can't see it".

I have carried condition 3 once, Mexican carry, when my holster broke.

I could feel you lurking.

What I am seeing is people aren't happy with 3-3.5 lbs out of the box so they tinker and as usual they break stuff.

 

[James]

1911 History

Actually the 1911 was designed to have the hammer thumbed back as it was drawn.

Check out the 1905 and 1910 models if you don't believe what JMB intended.

Just because later doctrine espouses condition one doesn't mean condition two is wrong.

Browning designed two versions for military trials, an internal hammer & an external hammer.

The Army preferred an external hammer that could be de-cocked manually and be obvious at a glance what condition (cocked/un-cocked) it was in.

The manual thumb safety was NOT a part of the initial design, it was added later at the request of the Cavalry branch for greater safety in battle on a horse.

The Army did not allow routine carry cocked & locked. That came along much later with Cooper in the late 1950s & early 1960s.

It IS the most action-ready method of carry, but it was NOT designed initially for it.

Those who say "Browning intended it to be carried C&L" have no factual basis for that statement.

Great post.

The 1911 and its predecessors were developed in large part from military requirements. I'll add that the inertial firing pin was added to the 1902 Colt so that it could more safely be carried hammer down on a loaded chamber (Condition 2).

If we want to argue that Browning intended cocked and locked carry, we should be using the 1903 Colt as evidence. Whether this gun influenced 1911 evolution or not may never be proven.

 

[James]

I guess the years I spent carrying shotguns and rifles through the woods cocked and locked as a kid eliminated any worries I had when I got a 1911.

 

[James]

I brought it up, since some made the comment they had never heard of anyone carrying an empty chamber with any handgun.

And yet you still misinterpret/misquote it.

 

[James]

I wasn’t trying for a direct quote, just relaying how I brought the SAA into the conversation.

Jeez, get over yourself. Own your posts. You said ‘any’. I didn’t paint you into that corner.

I am owning it. This is the part that came before "any": "I don't know anybody personally that currently..." That wasn't a comment denying the existence of cowboys and the Israeli army.

I didn't say you painted me into a corner, I am saying you aren't reading it right. C'mon man I just want to be understood!

 

[James]

Other than my 1911s and a Hi-Power, I don't own any other pistols that have a safety. Of course, a revolver doesn't have a safety and how many years have they been around? And a revolver is usually considered the safest type of handgun. Sig P229, Kahr PM9, no safeties. A lot of professionals, Texas Rangers etc. have had the grip safety on a 1911 disabled [pinned or tied] and the Hi-Power doesn't have a grip safety. Contrary to what that actor said, if you don't pull the trigger the gun wont fire!

The Hi Power has a different trigger and connector design...apples and oranges. Birds can fly but that doesn't mean you should try it.

Do you walk around with a cocked revolver in your holster?