[Crims_Longevity]

i am relatively new to the 1911 platform and just purchased a used Colt commander 70s series. I was having some malfunctions with the cycling where the casing wasn't being extracted from the chamber. This would happen about 10-20% of the rounds i shot. I was using both Colt and Wilson mags they seemed to each have the same problem, i was running 230 grain ball ammo and the gun was mildly clean... could this be solved with something as simple as deep clean and lots of lubricant or does seem like a more serious issue with an ejector/ extractor? What do you suggest thanks for the help!

This ol 1911 is also my first handgun so any info about proper storage, ammo preferences, holster preferences would be appreciated.

- Crim

 

[kp321]

First thing, after thorough cleaning, is to adjust the extractor. There is a sticky in this forum from Steve in Allentown that will guide you through proper extractor adjustment.

 

[dsk]

1. Check for sufficient extractor tension.
2. Make sure the extractor hook isn't chipped/broken.
3. Check for a loose ejector on the frame.
4. Make sure the slide isn't short-stroking due to a too-strong recoil spring or limp-wristing the pistol.
5. If the pistol has a match bushing installed check for proper linkdown.

 

[sevenL4]

If the CASING is not being EXTRACTED, examine the EXTRACTOR

 

[Crims_Longevity]

If the CASING is not being EXTRACTED, examine the EXTRACTOR

Oh, roger that seven. just so you know, you can press the 'Caps Lock' button to make certain letters big... it emphasizes their importance.

 

[sevenL4]

THANK YOU

 

[mdell49]

There are many excellent How To videos on YouTube. Here is one on how to examine tension on extractor. Others on how to adjust it are available.

(1) Wilson Combat - Checking the Extractor Tension in your 1911 - YouTube

 

[Steve in Allentown]

That Wilson video is a real hoot. Since they manufacture their own extractors to fit their slides, it's possible they're able to set the extractor deflection during the manufacturing process which would explain why they never address the issue of deflection in their videos. I don't have a Wilson so I have no way to verify my guess.

For those few of us who don't own a Wilson, there's more to fitting an extractor than what you see in the various You Tube videos. The extractor fitting sticky above may prove very useful to those who are experiencing extractor related malfunctions.

 

[Mike A1]

Whoa there, perhaps you should try what you said.
You asked :

could this be solved with something as simple as deep clean and lots of lubricant

If you need to ask then yes then indeed start there first.

Pardon me but I have seen extracftion problems caused by grit & grime under the extractor causing it to malfuntion.
Try removing the extractor & cleaning it & it's tunnel first then get complecated.

A malfuntion in a 1911 is well known,however like everything simple fixes first then go advanced as needed.

 

[hal copple]

When my custom 9 mm 1911 by Cylinder and Slide began to have occasional failures to extract, I asked why it was so, and their reply was that my spring was weak, and not allowing the just fired case enough time to "shrink" back down to the smaller size, in simple terms. Thus the extractor was not able to pull the the still hot and expanded case from the chamber. Sure enough, a new recoil spring immediately fixed the problem. But like above, evaluations of malfunctions should always start with a good cleaning, and a check of magazines for deformed lfeed lips or followers. Best wishes, NV

 

[subscriber]

Once fixed; don't drop a round in the chamber and then drop the slide on it. Load only from the magazine. The extractor can be deflected far enough to yield the steel, and end up with insufficient engagement to extract empty cases.

This assumes the chamber is not unusually rough, or undercut with a reverse taper.

Are you shooting low powered reloads? Have you changed out the recoil spring for something super "powerful"?

This is a "must read" about extractor tuning: Steve in Allentown Extractor fitting

 

[Crims_Longevity]

Pardon me but I have seen extraction problems caused by grit & grime under the extractor causing it to malfunction.
Try removing the extractor & cleaning it & it's tunnel first then get complicated.

Thanks! yeah i did a heavy detail clean and there was tons of grit to be removed in the extractor area. I bought the firearm used and wasnt entirely certain of the internals conditions when purchased. Other than the extractor everything looks good. i did the extractor tuning test and it certainly had less tension that within an expectable standard. so im pretty sure that was the issue. i tuned it up and holds onto those casing much firmer now. wish me luck for the next time out at the range!

also... a lot of people recommend heavy lubrication with 1911s in particular. is it best to lubricate right before shooting, while in storage or both? the gun certainly shouldn't be flooded with oil, but can it be over lubricated?

 

[subscriber]

Over lubrication? These guys explore that:

Whatever the gun flung off within two mags worth of ammo, might be considered over lubrication...

 

[Crims_Longevity]

Are you shooting low powered reloads? Have you changed out the recoil spring for something super "powerful"?

i am shooting standard white box Winchester ammo and a stock recoil spring. what would be an indicator that the recoil spring need to be replaced? the slide seems to have good velocity and i havent had problems with the ejector but i suppose low slide velocity could impact the extractor as well...

my spring was weak, and not allowing the just fired case enough time to "shrink" back down to the smaller size, in simple terms. Thus the extractor was not able to pull the the still hot and expanded case from the chamber.

i look into this as well, thanks for the tip! i tested the extractor tension and it was certainly lower than expected. So hopefully that was the problem, if not, ill take a look at the recoil spring next, cheers

& merry christmas!

 

[jcc7x7]

You said you were new to 1911's , Welcome aboard the 1911 train!!!
When you buy a used 1911 it's a good idea to:
Detail strip it and clean it.
Lube it, just a couple drops of oil on each rail a few on the lugs and a couple on the end of the barrel where it ride through the bushing, will USUALLY get it done
Replace the recoils spring with the "standard" for caliber (9mm-9 or 10, 40 -12-14, 45-15-18lbs) and a new firing pin spring. If you buy Wolff springs the FP spring comes in the recoil spring package.
Safety check the gun. i.e. thumb safety and grip safety are working correctly. Lots of people disengage the grip safety= for competition.

There is lots of info on doing these thing on this forum or from some of the custom makers.

That way YOU know what's in you gun for springs and the basic condition of the gun.

Lots of shops will help and show you how to do the detail strip during their slow hours of operation. May be worth asking the local gun shop/smith for a little tutoring. You only know what you know: so to speak.

FWIW

 

[Steve in Allentown]

. . . what would be an indicator that the recoil spring need to be replaced? . . . i suppose low slide velocity could impact the extractor as well.

Lots of excellent advice in this thread.

Slide velocity can affect the ability of the extractor to securely hold onto the fired case IF the extractor is not correctly fit. Shooting hot factory hollowpoints results in more force being applied to the entire pistol than shooting powder puff handloads. A less than optimally fit extractor will frequently work fine with light loads but will lose control of fired cases when using hot loads. See my link in post #8 above.

To expand on jcc7x7's advice to replace the springs I would add that I'd also replace the mainspring (hammer spring) as well with a 23lb Wolff just so you know for a fact what's in the pistol.

Now to head off into something a little bit more complicated than just swapping springs. This is not something you have to do now but it may prove useful in the future. Shorter than 5" 1911s must operate within much tighter time parameters than 5" 1911s due to their shorter slide travel. One thing that will help slow down the rearward velocity of the slide is to fit an oversized, flat bottom firing pin stop. This will prevent extractor clocking, it will have a decided effect on slowing the slide, and it will enhance feeding reliability. The downside is that it will require more effort to pull the slide back.

 

[Mike A1]

Thanks! yeah i did a heavy detail clean and there was tons of grit to be removed in the extractor area. I bought the firearm used and wasnt entirely certain of the internals conditions when purchased. Other than the extractor everything looks good. i did the extractor tuning test and it certainly had less tension that within an expectable standard. so im pretty sure that was the issue. i tuned it up and holds onto those casing much firmer now. wish me luck for the next time out at the range!

also... a lot of people recommend heavy lubrication with 1911s in particular. is it best to lubricate right before shooting, while in storage or both? the gun certainly shouldn't be flooded with oil, but can it be over lubricated?

I have always looked at lubeing like a life long Mechanic does.
2 much 2 stroke oil, engine burns 2 hot.
Grease tends to collect grease & grime oil lets grit & grime run out, & parts stay clean.

I use an oil with PTFE called Tri Flow : TRI-FLOW® SUPERIOR LUBRICANT DRIP BOTTLE – Triflow Lubricants
As an experiment I tried TF only on an M1 Garand for a High power match. If you do not use grease it will seize up .
I won the WWII match with my M1 running at 100% I never used grease om my NM M1As after that & do not regret it,
they did not have TF back in WWII.

After 30 plus years of shop use I trust all my firearms to TF. A small bottle around $5.00 is all you need unless you like paying
for gizmo oils that do it all. I have boxes of wonder lubes I found out later were just Automotive lubes like Shooters choice red
grease it was just Mobil ! Synthetic grease for $6.00 a tube compared to $6.00 for a tiny tube of Shooters choice.

I want a lubricant that sticks & yet still flows out grit & grime that we know causes much wear.
Friction causes heat & that causes wear & tear. A few drops before each range trip will prevent wear
& provide easy clean up. Get the grit out & fill the pores with PTFE & good combination to prevent wear.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

I use an oil with PTFE called Tri Flow . . .
I never used grease om my NM M1As after that & do not regret it.

What about getting lube into the bolt roller? I learned to pack grease into it until it oozed out from the other side.

 

[Mike A1]

What about getting lube into the bolt roller? I learned to pack grease into it until it oozed out from the other side.

We did a bolt removal after our return from Matches & used the TF a few drops in the roller & never had a problem.
The oil with PTFE creeped into every area cleaning & protecting heat was reduced in our rifles over grease lubed rifles.
We had 4 to 6 Shooters at the NMC Matches all using TF we did have fewer issues & less down time.

With the whole world now using 0 W 0 oil in our internal combustion engines I guess oil that reaches into small spaces
will lubricate better. I still run 10 W 30 in my 2013 Subaru & 20W 50 in my 1969 C/10 350 CI.

Grease is good for slow high pressure surfaces where oil would be smashed out of place.

 

[Sparks]

I was having some malfunctions with the cycling where the casing wasn't being extracted from the chamber.

I'd like to take your word for it that the cases REMAIN in the chamber. That symptom doesn't happen that often, but one reason for it is a tight chamber - one that has not been finished reamed. Often you will have to use a wooden range rod to pop the case out of the chamber. To check for this problem, just hold the barrel vertically and drop a loaded round into the chamber. It should plunk easily all the way in and fall back out on its own weight.

On the other hand, if the case is loose inside the gun, then the case has actually extracted, but has not ejected. That symptom is more likely caused by a faulty extractor or extractor adjustment problem. Contrary to what sounds obvious is the doctrine that says - if it doesn't extract, you have a bad extractor. That's like saying if a car won't start, it must need a new starter.

How about some photos?

-Sparks