[Tim]

Do the new Colt Gov't models still have the plastic parts? I want a basic 1911 pistol to shoot which is close to the Remington Rand 1911 I have. Thinking about the Colt repro (which I asked about here already), or a basic Gov't model (1991). Don't know much about either, and the local gun stores don't have one to examine.

 

[dsk]

Here's my opinion- since you already have a Remington Rand I don't see much need for you to buy the WW2 repro (then again, since when is it ever a question of need?). Since you already own the real thing (so what if it's not a Colt?) I'd suggest looking into getting one of the new Colt Governments with the new slide markings. Since it sounds like you'd have to order it, I'd suggest holding off another month while the old models that say "M1991A1" get flushed out of the pipeline.

------------------
D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

 

[Tim]

Thanks dsk. Can you (or anyone else) tell me if the series 80 is much different trigger, etc. than the older 1911's? I've only fired the Army and Springfield Armory types. Also curious about the parts etc of the current Colt pistols.

 

[Inspector Callahan]

Some people claim that the Series 80 modification doesn't affect trigger pulls, but that's a bunch of crap at best and an outright lie at worst. One can polish the Series 80 parts and get most of the detrimental effect worked out. Some remove the "lawyer parts" altogether. Brownells sells a little plate specifically for this modification.

I wouldn't remove the stuff if it was going to be a carry gun, purely for liability reasons. However for a range gun, it may be a different story. I don't currently own any Series 80 Colts. Mainly because I don't trust them to go "boom" every time the trigger is pulled. I have an XSE on order but plan to junk the levers as soon as it's in my possesion.

Callahan

 

[FirearmsPlus.FL]

The series 80 parts do add something to teh trigger, but it's a very subjective thing. I'm not very trigger sensitive, so I don't even notice the difference in most guns.

Wilson (of Wilson Combat) once posted that the series 80 parts add about 1/2 pund to teh pull weight. I've only heard of the part's failing once in a DE 10mm and I'm pretty sure that there won't be a problem, but then, I generally take the gun as a whole into my "failure" ideas. (Sure, Glock only has 30whatever parts, but that just means each part is that much more significant

Chances of a pre-80 series firing when dropped are pretty minimal, and only under specific circumstances, but it can happen, if it does, and you could have prevented it by not removing the parts....

 

[dsk]

I bought a Series 80 blued back in 1991. It has since fired about 20,000 rounds. The original FPS parts are still in it. There are slight nicks around the plunger, but nothing that would cause a failure to fire. Those parts may be small, but they're not under much stress either.

BTW that Colt has one of the best trigger pulls of any of my guns. What little weight or feel the FPS adds is very slight, and is only going to be a factor when trying to get the pull weight under 4 1/2 pounds (not a good idea for a carry or home defense gun).

------------------
D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

 

[Inspector Callahan]

I see your point Dana, but I just don't feel right carrying a Series 80 for defensive purposes. Extra parts, and dainty little ones at that, are failure bait IMHO. I know this sounds like raging paranoia but I'd sure hate to show up at the local hospital, full of holes, and try to explain to my wife that my big Colt just went "click" and the bad guy was able to eat my lunch.

I also see your point FPFL. If there was a drop-related discharge from a converted Series 80 Colt and it could be proven that the FP safety could have prevented it, one might be in deep sewage legally speaking. As a general rule, I try to avoid dropping my handguns. I don't carry Series 80 guns, converted or otherwise, for CCW. And never will....

Callahan

[This message has been edited by Inspector Harry Callahan (edited 10-03-2001).]

 

[dsk]

BTW, my carry 1911 is often one of my GI guns, so for the record I don't mind not having the FPS either. Just myself I have never suggested to others that they stay away from the FPS, because personal preference aside it's not a big deal.

The biggest problem with the FPS comes from when amateurs start trying to do their own trigger job. There is a reason why Colt has three different sizes of FPS levers! If you mess with the lockwork parts you can change the geometry of the FPS parts quite easily.

------------------
D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

 

[LONE WOLF]

I just bought a SERIES 80 gun that is from COLT's Custom Shop. It has COLT TACTICAL roller marks on the slide and came with a "VIDECKI TRIGGER." Does the VIDECKI TRIGGER negate the negatives associated with the Series 80's guns?

I haven't shot it yet, but it has all the bells and whistles of a fully customized 1911.

Anyone have knowledge about the VIDECKI TRIGGER at all in Series 80 guns?

 

[Inspector Callahan]

Congratulations on your new Colt. Sounds like an interesting variation. The Videki trigger is a nice custom touch and very attractive, but unfortunately it does very little to overcome the 1/2# (or so) of additional weight due to the FP safety levers and plunger.

On Series 80 guns, trigger pressure is used to push a plunger up so the firing pin can fly forward during ignition. This is accomplished thru levers (sort of like a Beretta 92) and the Videki really does nothing to overcome it. But it does lighten overall gun weight and has an overtravel adjustment. Very classy. Too bad Videki is now out of business. Hang on to that trigger!

Enjoy your new Colt.

[This message has been edited by Inspector Harry Callahan (edited 10-03-2001).]

 

[RickB]

I have two S80 Colts, and I'd say the addition of FP block changes the trigger more qualitatively than quantitatively. I did a back-to-back test with my Delta, and while the trigger did feel a little creepier (since any movement of the trigger group parts will be felt as creep, and the S80 bits add three moving parts), the weight difference was negligible.

 

[Ugly-Jeep-Truck]

I had a Norinco that at the time I thought to have a very decent trigger pull, then I got my colt, lemme tell you, it is lighter than my old 1911 which had no FPS,and is alot cleaner. I just think ya'll have shot too many damn 1911's to te point where you find flaws that ordinarily would not have bothered you. Take for example the drivers in the car magazines, they bitch because because the thing might have a slight push at its limits. What they don't convey very well is that this is at speeds that few of us auto enthusiasts will ever experience our vehicles at, but we get accustomed to reading the magazines, and think that the annoying flaws to the experts will also be one to us.

 

[cal49m]

Hello.I am new to this forum. I am getting back into shooting. I haven't kept up with this hobby for about 15 yrs. Now I see a lot of people unhappy with Colt. Is that because they make bad guns? I own a Colt m1911a1 series 70. I decided to buy a m1991a1 for 2 reasons. First I wouldn't have to train on different guns. Second if parts are interchangeable it would be easier to keep one running if the other failed I hope.
I am concerned. I have seen a lot of posters on this board unhappy with the series 80 safety system. Why? Is that based on personal experience with some kind of failure? Inspector Harry Calahan states >>I don't currently own any Series 80 Colts. Mainly because I don't trust them to go "boom" every time the trigger is pulled.<< What makes Harry think like that. I thought colts were reliable. Are the new models failing to fire at a high rate. Please help because if I buy a Colt I want it to be as reliable as my old one. Thnks.

 

[dnancarr]

Most of the whining about the FPS is just that-hot air. Have an early series 80 with 75,000 rounds through it and no problems ever related to the FPS, or anything else outside of some improperly sized ammo for that matter. So far as trigger pull goes, I pulled the parts, lightly polished the working surfaces and I defy you to be able to tell as to whether they are in the weapon or not. Look at those parts-all 4 of them, and tell me its going to add a half pound to anything. I also have a 1991A1 manufactured last winter, and the roll marks may be ugly, but the darned thing shoots very well, is extremely tight, and groups well. I hear a lot more squawks about Kimbers and Springfields generally than Colt not working for one reason or another, but I suspect at least part of it is because the owners are expecting them to be something they're not. I bet my life on one every single day and so far as the Series 80 goes, have done so for 10 years. The FPS is not the boogie man unless you happen to buy the occasional Murphy, and everyone makes one of those.

 

[Col. Colt]

Guys - the Series 80 Parts are a non-issue to the informed, another Urban Myth. Colt and Para have made hundreds of thousands of 1911s with this lockwork, and EVERY SINGLE MODERN AUTOMATIC, be it Beretta, Glock, SIG, HK, etc, has some variation of the SAME firing pin lock plunger type safety. If it really was a problem, it would have been duly noted and exorcised by now. Most of the problems that have occured were almost undoubtably due to end users and gunsmiths changing trigger overtravel screw settings and the like without understanding the effect of what they were doing. Any and all mechanical parts of any mechanism can and will fail - the question is, is the problem statistically significant compared to the benefit bestowed. In this case the firing pin lock makes the "old" 1911 design much more acceptable to persons who might otherwise fear "cocked and locked". The gun cannot discharge Unless You Pull the Trigger. What's wrong with that?

As it is, Kimber is ADDING a Firing Pin Lock to all their 1911s, and they aren't doing it because they just want to spend money changing their tooling. It adds safety - and is no more likely to fail than any other part of the pistol. I seriously doubt if the average shooter could actually feel if the parts had been removed from the gun or not in a blindfold test.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind - I just believe the "pro" side deserves a hearing, also.

Warmly, Col. Colt

"Beware of Counterfeits & Patent Infringements"

 

[Tim]

Well damn...I guess I'll just have to get a Colt AND a Springfield. Bummer! :d

 

[Tim]

Oops...I meant to add

 

[James]

Originally posted by Inspector Harry Callahan:
Some people claim that the Series 80 modification doesn't affect trigger pulls, but that's a bunch of crap at best and an outright lie at worst.

The same can be said about the myth about series 80 guns not going boom.

A crisp 4lb pull is a crisp 4lb pull whether it is on a series 80 or 70. Has more to do with trigger fit, sear angles, and mainspring than it does the series 80 parts. I can't tell any difference between the two if both are properly setup. That's not a bunch of crap or a lie.

 

[CastleBravo]

A pistolsmith that can't give you a superlative trigger on a Series 80 is a clueless hack. And yes, we have gone WAY off topic.

Back to topic: The 1991A1 has a plastic trigger and mainspring housing last time I checked. The 1911 reproduction doesn't. However, the price difference between the two is alot more than the cost of replacing the trigger and MSH if you hate plastic.

------------------
CastleBravo
The Pit: http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/index.html

[This message has been edited by CastleBravo (edited 10-05-2001).]

 

[Inspector Callahan]

Well, there are obviously two sides to this argument-turned-flame-war. Let me restate my PERSONAL opinion. I guess I was out of line with the "bunch of crap at best and outright lie at worst" comment. That was patently unfair to everyone and I apologize.

That said, I have never ACTUALLY experienced a failure to fire with a Series 80 Colt that could be directly attributed to the FPS. Yet I still don't trust the system with my life. It's a personal quirk, that's all. I certainly trust my Beretta and my Glock and both of them have a similar FPS system. But they were DESIGNED that way from the ground up. Some lawyer didn't get with an engineer, cook up a few parts, and start drilling slides and such. No siree, the Colt was not originally designed for that stuff. Just look at the weak point on a Series 80 extractor. I've never had one break there, but still don't trust the damn things. The Beretta or Glock extractor doesn't have that cutout. Why? Again, the FPS was DESIGNED into the gun - not fabricated into it.

On to trigger pulls. Sure, I've seen some dandy trigger pulls on Series 80 guns. All of them had been doctored too. NEVER have I ran across an acceptable factory pull on a Series 80 gun. Maybe some of you have, I haven't. I understand the principle of a crisp trigger James, and like I said, have never found one on a factory Series 80 Colt. A few of the dandy pulls I mentioned above were obtained from simple polishing. A few were obtained from deeper work involving parts replacement and elbow grease. Maybe I just haven't handled enough, but I know what I've experienced. When one can pick up an SA or a Kimber, put it up against a genuine Colt and find better trigger pulls on the knock-offs, that means somebody's doing something WRONG. Maybe it's the lawyer parts. Maybe it's shoddy worksmanship in Hartford. Maybe SA and Kimber take a little more time and care. My vote goes to the lawyer parts as the root cause.

Anyway, I'm trying to get over my paranoia. I should be getting a newly rollmarked Colt Government Series 80 here in a week or so (depending on my shop's supplier). I will post a detailed range report and be as objective as I can about the condition of the factory pull. If I'm proven wrong, I shall say so publicly.

Callahan