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Discussion Starter #1
I am looking at one of the new WWII repro Colt 1911A1's that come in the wax paper box. Guy tells me the parts are no good and are made of "pot metal"?? Whats the story on the internal parts with this model Colt? Are the parts in this gun junk and what is the general feeling about this particular model Colt 1911A1? I guess theres only going to be 4,000 of them made.
 

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The Colt WW2 repro, like ALL currently-manufactuerd Colts uses internal parts made of cast steel. Word is that cast is better than the MIM pars used in other 1911s like the Kimber and Springfrield Armory guns. However, the WW2 originals used machined (not cast) steel parts. The reason why machined parts are no longer used is the expense. They were time-consuming to make and wasted a lot of raw material.

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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://usgi1911.tripod.com
 

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Originally posted by Patrickl:
Where in the hell are these stories coming from!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!?
They're coming from know-it-all types. There's one in every crowd.


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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://usgi1911.tripod.com
 

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Discussion Starter #5
This was from a "know-it-all" at the Gunshop I frequent. How he came up with this conclusion, I don't know. I most certainly don't believe him and wanted to ask you guys here at the Colt forum what the truth is regarding the cast parts. I guess I want to come out and ask -Is there anything to be worried about regrding the cast parts in the new Colts?
 

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Nothing. Cast parts when properly heat-treated last a long time. While I prefer tool steel parts personally, I understand that 90% of the gun-buying public won't pay $800 for a basic Colt M1991A1 with tool steel internals.

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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://usgi1911.tripod.com
 

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Sounds like a classic "armchair expert". I think the only guns I've ever heard of that use pot metal are those $50 ravens and those $100 Hi-Points and just about any Lorcin. I've heard horrer stories about brand new Hi-Points literally blowing up in the shooter's hands. I've never owned any, so I don't know first hand (excuse the pun). Just what I've heard.
 

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i think the key to deciding the validity of the 'comment' was the phrase POT METAL. i'd be willing to bet that the next words outta the guys mouth was, "Now the Kimber, on the other hand . . . . "
 

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Discussion Starter #9
b.b., were you standing next to me? I'am serious. The Kimber WAS put down in front of me as an example of what a 1911A1 should be. I have nothing against Kimber but the one I saw looked like a bar of soap around the muzzle. Just don't care for them. I like Colts. Why are dealers so hot on the Kimbers?
 
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I am so confused, machined, cast, MIM.
I am of the opinion that if it works and it don't break, don't worry about it. And for Petes's sake don't fix it.
I have a laymans understanding of the different processes. I have no problem with any of them. What I have a problem with is excessive pricing because a certain product or even a manufacturer is trendy.

Damn, there's that little voice again.
Reckon I will have to buy another 1911 to make her go away and leave me alone.


All of this goes to show that some people will beleive anything they hear.
 

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Originally posted by blacklab:
b.b., were you standing next to me? I'am serious. The Kimber WAS put down in front of me as an example of what a 1911A1 should be. I have nothing against Kimber but the one I saw looked like a bar of soap around the muzzle. Just don't care for them. I like Colts. Why are dealers so hot on the Kimbers?
Quite honestly, I think the $800 + dollars for the Colt WWII repro is not worth it, but obviously people are buying them. YMMV.

Dealers are hot on Kimbers because they sell, they are available in quantity, and their quality is very good for the money.

Kimber alone has almost put Colt out of business, caused Springfield to make "Loaded" guns, and redefined what you expect from a 1911.

10 Years ago, the quality from Colt, well really wasn't quality. Now currently, Colt has changed that issue, but the damage has been done.

After Colt's announcement about 18 months ago that they are pretty much dropping a majority of their product line, most people believed that they were going bankrupt again for the 3rd time in 25 years.

And, Colt hasn't done much to market that they are still around. Probably because they don't have the tooling, capacity, and/or desire to manufacture more than they are putting out now.

I have a Colt Defender because at the time, there was no comparative product. I bought it kicking and screaming. But, it has turned out to be quite a decent gun. But honestly, the edges were sharp, and the fit and finish are a little below what you can get on a Kimber. As in, my thumb safety is not as crisp, and it goes beyond the detent when I flip it off -- it has play. So, I would give the Colt a "B", and the Kimber an "A-".

Since I purchased it, Colt has moved to a less satisfying thumb safety, grip safety, staked front sight, and "post" type rear sights (instead of Novak-like). I think that is a bad move. What they offer as far as features would be considered "lower" than what the rest of the industry offers now.

Granted, if you are a Colt fan, then you certainly will not be dissapointed by what the company is putting out. But given that I would want to replace the sights, thumb and grip safety to get what the Kimber already has, I might as well just get the Kimber to begin with and pocket the difference that it would cost to add them to the Colt.

So, that being said, I understand why dealers are pushing Kimbers. But, you have asked for a Colt, and the dealer is being unethical by lying about them. In that, you should find yourself another dealer. I don't stand for that BS. I would have certainly put that jerk to task right then and there.

Its one thing to put a Kimber and a Colt side by side and ask the customer to decide what fits them best. However, its totally inexcusable to lie about something because you don't have it in stock and you want to make a sale.

[This message has been edited by Gun Nut (edited 11-13-2001).]
 

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correct me on this, but does not Kimber offer STEEP dealer discounts for dealers who are ordering in certain quantity brackets? that's gotta be a great incentive for margional operations to engage in such unethicial goings on.
comment to Gun Nut: yes there are things that I change on my Colts. these items are the very same things that i would change on a Kimber. Why? Because I want it to be MINE. I select the sights, the trigger, the 'pull' and because I select 'em (and because I trust my pistolsmith) I know EXACTLY what lays inside the frame. Changing perfectly 'good' things is human nature for most of us, buy a car: make it 'yours' by changing the wheels, tires, exhaust, ect. Purchase a house: plant trees, shrubs, or (under great duress) flowers for the Mrs.
Other handgun brands have their strong points, but they all wanna be, or either directly or indirectly compare themselves to one other item on the shelf - Colt.
sorry 'bout the spelling, english major I was not!
just a thought from coyote.
 

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Originally posted by b.b.coyote:
correct me on this, but does not Kimber offer STEEP dealer discounts for dealers who are ordering in certain quantity brackets?
No. That is conjecture. In order to be factory authorized to sell Kimbers, a la a Kimber Master Dealer, you must order one of each model over the year. I think you can only order from the factory if you are a Kimber Master Dealer, otherwise, you have to go with what the distributors have. I don't have an FFL, but I am pretty sure that is how my dealer explained it to me.

However that being said, it is the normal free market economy, and with *ANY* gun dealer I might add, the more you order, the cheaper they are.
comment to Gun Nut: yes there are things that I change on my Colts. these items are the very same things that i would change on a Kimber. Why? Because I want it to be MINE. I select the sights, the trigger, the 'pull' and because I select 'em (and because I trust my pistolsmith) ...
Like I said before, that is fine for you. I'd rather buy a gun with all the parts I want already. I don't want to have to change things. I want it to work and look the way I want it to out of the box. Colt doesn't currently do that for me, so I don't currently consider them an option.

Other handgun brands have their strong points, but they all wanna be, or either directly or indirectly compare themselves to one other item on the shelf - Colt.
Of course, we are on the Colt forum, and I am perfectly willing to consider a Colt in my handgun options. But this Colt snobbery thing is just a bunch of hooey to me.

I don't really care who makes my 1911, Colt or not. I want a 1911 with the accuracy, features, and quality for a certain price. If Colt can do that, that is fine. I'll buy their guns! If they can't, I am not going to cut them any slack just because it says Colt on the slide. And pretty much, neither is a majority of the market anymore. Kimber changed that in a big way, and that is the reason Colt is having problems.

From the 80s 'till pretty much 3 years ago, Colt has been relying on people to spend money on its name and get an inconsistent product. It was either a Colt, a Springfield, or a semi/customized gun.

Well that BS is what pretty much almost led to the demise of the 1911 as a production gun. Kimber has brought back the 1911 to the status that it deserves.

It seems now like Colt and others in the industry are trying to be more like Kimber, certainly not the other way around. And thank goodness for that, because that means the others would be having financial difficulties, limited product selection, and limited availability.

I'd love to see Colt be successful. The more companies making great production 1911, the better it is for everyone. But before Kimber, I was never willing to even touch a 1911 because I didn't want to spend $700 for a Colt then have to spend another $900 at a custom shop to get what I wanted.

In my short 14 years as a "Gun Nut" I have never seen the public shooting community so interested in JMB's design. I'll certainly take what is going on now over when the industry was all "trying to be like Colt".


[This message has been edited by Gun Nut (edited 11-13-2001).]
 

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It seems there are few of us around that actually don't WANT "custom features" on a 1911. I have a lot of experience with Kimbers and I think they are high quality weapons, but they just don't turn me on like a plain ol' Colt does. I'm pissed at the high price on the WWII reproduction, but I'm going to end up paying it because Colt is the only company producing exactly what I want.

My dad went to our dealer to recon the Colt selection for me before I got home, and had a similar "steering" experience. First the guy tried to convince my dad of the merits of a chopped 1911 for CCW (fortunately my dad and I have an understanding that only the Gov't model will do). Then he went on about the features of Colt's competitors. Fortunately he didn't lie or anything like that - we've got a good relationship with this store. Still, my dad decided to wait until I got home so we could both decide.
 

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No matter how many Kimbers you order, you don't get any better than the one price as a Master Dealer. (Unless it's a secret from us :)

I think Kimber builds a great gun, but I prefer a Colt for myself. I don't like either grip safety, and change it out either way. The Colt offer's more options there.

I have developed a fondness for the standard non-extended manual safety, and won't be changing that out on my Colts.

I prefer the undercut trigger guard that Colt does. I also like the cut at the front of the ejection port for ejecting live rounds. I prefer a stainless barrel.

As regards the MIM parts, I don't care about the process, but if I bought a stainless kimber, all the parts inside are blued steel, where as the parts in teh Colt are stainless.

When you buy a Kimber (blue or stainless) the parts (grip safety, slide lock, manual safety) are either carbon steel (blued or nickeled) or stainless (natural or blackened) with no regard to the material of the gun.

Now, on Kimber's plus side, extended mag release, hex head mag catch lock and grip screws, the sights are smoother looking, even though I prefer the military style on the Colt's with the dots. The grip safety is contoured to teh gun, as opposed to the drop in of the Colt.

IOW, both have their features, I prefer the Colt.
 
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