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Would it be ok for them to pull their folding stock pcc out of their backpack, on the clock, to shoot it from concealment? Guess you don't do steel challenge much as the .22 shooters can run some stages pretty fast. Main reason for divisions and classifications. I compare myself overall in scores for the 5k run and guns I do, but most of the competitors are running similar stuff. Hard to compare overall against so many fast shooters in our local uspsa matches.
 

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Discussion Starter #62 (Edited)
A PCC is not a short barreled rifle....

Also a PCC is not a short barreled rifle, so you can keep trying to say it is but it just makes you sound silly. The majority of people at matches with PCCs have 16 inch barrels with 2-3 inches of muzzle brake on top of that. Some have 14 inch barrels with a welded on muzzle brake. Still not an SBR.
So you believe a shoulder fired weapon, with 30 round mags, not concealed, using a center fire pistol cartridge, and using a muzzle brake, is a pistol.....? I just don't think so....I think it makes you sound sillier....I think it fits the description of a rifle:

Rifle - A shoulder-mounted firearm, having a series of spiral grooves (rifling) cut inside the barrel that impart a rapid spin to the single projectile, gyroscopically stabilizing it in flight for greatly improved accuracy over that of a smoothbore gun.

IMHO, a PCC is not a pistol and not necessarily a short barreled rifle, but I don't think it was intended to be used in a pistol match.....

Since a shoulder fired PCC is faster and more accurate to shoot, it has become very popular to be used in a pistol match...…so allowances have been made to allow their use..... In IDPA, where drawing a handgun from concealment is still the norm, a PCC is not holstered or concealed....and really doesn't fit the idea of drawing a handgun from concealment.....so it does not compete on a level playing field.....

When I am out in public, I have been carrying a concealed handgun in FL since the state changed the laws to allow "shall issue" concealed weapon permits in 1988.....for those that meet the qualifications, the state will issue a permit. Here is the Florida statute for concealed carry, and a PCC is not allowed since it is not a handgun:

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—

(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie…..
 

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Just in case... Sorting on Practiscore is as simple as clicking on your class: Limited=LTD. Click on LTD and the class results will then pull up. FWIW, I'm of the opinion that a shoulder fired weapon with a 16" barrel, regardless of caliber is a rifle. That being said, I don't mind competing against them when I'm shooting a pistol/handgun. I have a couple of PCCs and love shooting them. Without a doubt, they're easier to shoot and hit with, which is why every Military on the planet outfits their troops with rifles.

We had several shooting AR rimfires yesterday at the Steel Challenge Match where I shot, (CASA, I was 2nd of 4 in Limited Class). It's pretty tough to compete against that. Although they're not in my class, I compete against everyone. I try to be first overall, but I never have been first overall, or second, or third. But I try. Also, I never have figured out why the rimfire handgun guys can start from low ready, vice from the holster.
 

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It brings in additional match fees

You can filter PractiScore instead of overall

They are fun as heck!

We get to kid PCC shooters about their lack of pistol skills during matches


I understand the premise of the OP that it is not concealable and not in the vein of IDPA's goal, but being inclusive helps us all. It is a game after all. Not allowing them will just drive shooters to other matches. Most of our PCC shooters shoot it as a second gun.
 

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.....so it does not compete on a level playing field.....
Not even close to accurate. A PCC shooter is not competing against an Open shooter or a Limited shooter, nor is a Production shooter competing against an Open shooter. This is why we have divisions.

Your argument is like a Production shooter complaining about Open shooters.

The Pistol caliber in PCC is why it fits in a match with stages designed for a pistol as opposed to a rifle. The rifle stages at most matches I have attended, are designed with much farther distances than a PCC could manage.

You don't like em, We get that, Im sure my views won't change your mind. But the division is getting more and more popular. The host ranges are getting more used to running a match with them so they run more smoothly than at first. And they are fun to run.

Where do you attend matches here in Florida?

edited to add that my perspective is from the USPSA side of competition, but my comments apply to either. There is no such thing as leveling the playing field. Every match I have ever been to, all competitors played by the same rules, on the exact same stages, scored exactly the same for each competitor. By their respective divisions. It can't get any more level than that.....(I do not shoot IDPA, I have, but choose not too)
 

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I never have figured out why the rimfire handgun guys can start from low ready, vice from the holster.
They dont make very many decent holsters for rimfire handguns. Just el cheapo Uncle Mikes nylon garbage. So rather than have someone drop a pistol or have an AD trying to get the pistol out, low ready is what it became.
 

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I have a good holster for my M41 steel gun which I use because it is natural to find the pistol there and not do the Bag Ballet. But I don't fast draw it, the safety is miniscule and stiff so it is a good thing the rules don't require it.
 

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Holsters for .22 pistols?

This one fits in a lot of holsters! :)


Nelson an a Fusion receiver. Out shoots my M41!

Smiles,
 

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I don't shoot IDPA but do shoot USPSA. I agree with everything you said. PCC needs to form their own league with stages designed specifically for them. The idea that it draws new shooters is crap. What happens is all the **** pistol shooters that can't compete switch to PCC.

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I'm seeing the same thing.

Why do people even care? Is it all about top over all?

I thought it was about winning the Division. I went to a Steet over the weekend and the only ones actually FASTER than me were .22LR, or PCC. So I felt on top of the world. I didn't care long guns and 22's beat me when I was shooting Single Stack
 

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Discussion Starter #71
My opinion on PCC's.....

Your argument is like a Production shooter complaining about Open shooters.
NO....it is about a rifle competing against a pistol for High Overall ranking .....at least in the Open Division with a compensated handgun, it is still a pistol vs. a Production pistol...

I would much prefer to see the results of the High Overall pistol shooter, and have a separate ranking for High Overall PCC in ANY action pistol match.....a shoulder fired PCC is not a handgun.....
 
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