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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
New member here and new to the 45ACP.

I was given a WWll Remington Rand 45ACP pistol. I've been looking around on the internet for information on it, but after reading a few discussions I'm not sure that I have an all original one.

Due the responses I have turned the item over to an FFL dealer who in turn will send it to the BATF.

THANKS to all for your responses.
 

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There has NEVER been a serial # put on the left side of a frame of any military issued 1911, you guys have had replacement serial #'s put on, and unless done by the BATFE it is an illegal frame.
 

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Surely, there's a form for legally applying a serial # to a previously-unnumbered frame?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Surely, there's a form for legally applying a serial # to a previously-unnumbered frame?
Unfortunately the frame did have a serial number that was removed and an erroneous one stamped on it for whatever reason.

It was one of those 1911's that some GI kept after WWll.

Anyway it's gone off to the ATF for them to do whatever it is they do.
 

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Unfortunately the frame did have a serial number that was removed and an erroneous one stamped on it for whatever reason.

It was one of those 1911's that some GI kept after WWll.

Anyway it's gone off to the ATF for them to do whatever it is they do.
Kiss that one goodbye.
 

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Surely, there's a form for legally applying a serial # to a previously-unnumbered frame?
If it was never numbered and made prior to 1968 it doesn't need a serial number. However, if it was numbered when it was made and the number was removed it is illegal. It's that simple. I've posted before that a letter was posted on this forum from ATF that they will not replace a removed serial number unless you are the original owner of the gun and it was stolen, had the number removed and then was recovered. You would need to be able to prove all of that. ATF is not going to abet thieves by issuing new serial numbers on what is obviously a stolen gun. Even if the military/gov't doesn't care about an obsolete weapon they aren't going to do it.
 

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Kiss that one goodbye.
I would say you are correct. It will be interesting to see what happens, I hope the OP will post a copy of whatever correspondence ATF sends back (I really wouldn't put much stock in word of mouth on something like this).

Frankly, I'd much rather lose what amounts to a shooter grade frame than pay out legal fees for possessing an illegal firearm. You reckon I'd have a pretty hard time when it came to renew my C&R license?
 

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As Art notes serial numbers are a requirement of the Gun Control Act of 1968. There was no requirement they have any before then and there is no requirement to add serial numbers to them.

Nor was there any restriction on altering or removing them prior to 1968. Nothing wrong with this pistol (in this regard) at all.

-- Chuck
 

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Nor was there any restriction on altering or removing them prior to 1968. Nothing wrong with this pistol (in this regard) at all.-- Chuck
Wrong again. Just because you repeat something often enough, it still doesn't make it right. I would strongly advise anyone not take the above misinformed advice.
The Federal Firearms Act of 1938 addressed removing serial numbers from firearms.

"The Federal Firearms Act[17] became law with the approval of President Roosevelt on June 30th, 1938. It went into effect on July 30th with the purpose of regulating interstate commerce in firearms and consequently curbing the possession of such weapons by criminals. The, Act provides for the licensing of all manufacturers and dealers in the interstate commerce of firearms. Criminals are banned from either receiving or sending firearms in interstate or foreign com- [Page 439] merce. Stolen firearms and those with obliterated serial numbers are barred from such commerce. The Act has nine sections but for purposes of clarity and brevity shall be treated under three divisions: definitions, prohibitions., and administration."

"Section 902i forbids the shipping, transporting, or knowingly receiving, in interstate or foreign commerce, of any firearm from which the manufacturer's serial number has been removed, obliterated or altered, "and the possession of any such firearm shall be presumptive evidence that such firearm was transported, shipped, or received, as the case may be, by the possessor in violation of this Act."[30] It is clear that the presumption applies only to the instant subdivision for only under this section is there any ban against such firearm."
 

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It's fairly long, so you may want to read it yourself. This same old argument comes up all the time and I really don't understand why. It's pretty simple to me that possession of any gun with an altered or removed serial number can potentially get you into much more trouble than the gun will ever be worth.



The National Firearms Act

Title 26, United States Code

INTERNAL REVENUE CODE

National Firearms Act of 1934


www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm


5842. Identification of firearms

(a) Identification of firearms other than destructive devices. -- Each manufacturer and importer and anyone making a firearm shall identify each firearm, other than a destructive device, manufactured, imported, or made by a serial number which may not be readily removed, obliterated, or altered, the name of the manufacturer, importer, or maker, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.

(b) Firearms without serial number. -- Any person who possesses a firearm, other than a destructive device, which does not bear the serial number and other information required by subsection (a) of this section shall identify the firearm with a serial number assigned by the Secretary and any other information the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.

§ 5861. Prohibited acts

g) to obliterate, remove, change, or alter the serial number or other

identification of a firearm required by this chapter; or

(h) to receive or possess a firearm having the serial number or other

identification required by this chapter obliterated, removed, changed, or

altered; or

(i) to receive or possess a firearm which is not identified by a serial

number as required by this chapter; or

(j) to transport, deliver, or receive any firearm in interstate commerce

which has not been registered as required by this chapter; or

(k) to receive or possess a firearm which has been imported or brought into the United States in violation of section 5844; or

(l) to make, or cause the making of, a false entry on any application,



http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm
 
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