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Now that I am retired I qualify annually for LEOSA, but I also get the state CC permit. I went through the Idaho “enhanced” class over the weekend (9 hours of joy).

I was using my Wilson CQB. Course of fire was 100 rounds at 10 yards in an 8” circle with NO TIME LIMIT (not scored though!). I kept all 100 in a group smaller than a baseball. Most of the shooters' targets looked like they had used buckshot at 25 yards. After the shooting we went back into class.

The instructor then proceeded to tell the class that 1911s, and all other firearms with external safeties, are dangerous to the user because you will forget to take the safety off if you get in a gun fight. That's why all PD's don’t allow them any more...too many cops screwing up and getting shot. He also told the class, while looking at me, that even if you can make small groups it doesn’t mean you can shoot tactically. I have never rolled my eyes so hard before.

His background was many years as a casino “SWAT” security guard in Vegas.

Sometimes I do miss being on the job.
 

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That's why all PD's don’t allow them any more...too many cops screwing up and getting shot.
Too many cops also get their service weapon wrestled away from them in a scuffle... and a manual safety will often bewilder the perp just long enough for the LEO to regain control of the situation. Just a couple days ago I was in a similar argument with another genius online who swore that a manual safety makes a weapon completely unsuitable as a combat weapon. Oooooookay...
 

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I practice putting the safety off as my 1911 is drawn from the holster. No time is wasted. By the time it’s out of the holster it’s combat ready. It’s knowing your weapon and how to draw it.
 

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I have carried SA EMP 9mm for over a decade and never had fubar forgetting my safety. As a firearms instructor for the past 25 years in LEO and CIV world, I am embarrassed to hear a BS from an instructor.
 

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Actually not surprising to me. Worst instructors I've ever had were connected with CCEW classes. They believe everyone in there are newbies and it's the only exposure to training that attendees have ever received
 

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"He also told the class, while looking at me, that even if you can make small groups it doesn’t mean you can shoot tactically."

Yeah, because demonstrating a very high level of control of your shooting in optimal conditions is a BAD THING since, you know, once it becomes "TACTICAL", shooting 24 inch groups over your shoulder is considered excellent shooting in 2021.
 

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"He also told the class, while looking at me, that even if you can make small groups it doesn’t mean you can shoot tactically."

When I took the Missouri Concealed Carry test, the instructor told us not to try and shoot a tiny group, because he had to certify that we had put 15 out of 20 shots on target. He had to be able to count at least 15 holes or partial holes.
 

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The internet can be a very depressing place, and life is too short to suffer fools. Anyone with a phone and a gun is now either an expert, or worse, an 'instructor'. The amount of garbage that keeps getting repeated over and over is staggering. I had to quit debating this point with so called 'experts'. It was becoming detrimental to my mindset. The minute someone says to me that a safety on a weapon is either useless, dangerous, or slow to deploy, I now tend to walk away from the conversation. There's only so much absurdity I'm willing to put up with as I get older. Granted, some of these folks may simply not know any better, because all the info they have they've gleaned from the web or from other web 'experts', but, by the same token, they shouldn't be instructing others while having such limited experience themselves.

Since we're a free society (to a degree), part of the price we pay for that freedom is that idiocy cannot, should not, be forcefully restrained. It's left up to the individual to self-police (a scary proposition onto itself). But as I've often said: just because you can have a gun, it doesn't mean that you should have a gun, much less 'teach' others about guns (another even scarier proposition!). :cautious:
 

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Had something similar happen a few years ago at LEOSA requal. Instructor did gun check prior to live fire. Makes a comment loud enough for everyone to hear to the effect of "here we go with another 1911 that won't function worth a damn". I just smiled.

I was consistently the first to complete strings of fire and my score was the highest in the class.

After the shoot, I asked him what was that he said about my 1911? He made like I hadn't said a thing and continued droning on. Quite a few of the students laughed out loud.
 

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The internet can be a very depressing place, and life is too short to suffer fools. Anyone with a phone and a gun is now either an expert, or worse, an 'instructor'. The amount of garbage that keeps getting repeated over and over is staggering. I had to quit debating this point with so called 'experts'. It was becoming detrimental to my mindset. The minute someone says to me that a safety on a weapon is either useless, dangerous, or slow to deploy, I now tend to walk away from the conversation. There's only so much absurdity I'm willing to put up with as I get older. Granted, some of these folks may simply not know any better, because all the info they have they've gleaned from the web or from other web 'experts', but, by the same token, they shouldn't be instructing others while having such limited experience themselves.
I get why people say that about thumb safeties. I have seen experienced people who carry/carried 1911's exclusively miss the thumb safety in drills. But, the fact of the matter is that such occurrences were very rare. The problem is in the thinking: equating one thumb safety manipulation failure across hundreds of manipulations in a 16-20 hour class to a 100% failure rate is incorrect. This is the true problem with guns, martial arts, and egos. Too many people let their ego drive them when it comes to anything related to fighting and guns.

Even worse, modern Americans have successfully divorced "fighting" and "guns" via the term "sporting use". Somehow, many gun owning Americans do not associate "gun" with any level of fighting. They consider themselves engaged in some sort of antiseptic "concealed carry" rather than "the gun fighting martial art with specialization in drawing from concealment." I have noticed this leads to all sorts of weird notions, some of which is "memorialized" in concealed carry classes. The NRA "Basic" courses certainly have not helped with their silly ban on the word "weapon" and other behaviors enforced upon students. I agree with some of those techniques, but they are never removed after the shooter gets enough experience.

Everything havanajim, other posters, and myself are saying is not new. You can see these same complaints in books written decades ago. Ed McGiven and others mentioned this sort of thing.
 

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Well, I do agree with the statement "Just because you can shoot small groups doesn't mean that you can shoot tactically."
The concepts of tactics are frequently misunderstood by the casual or untrained (I mean real training and experience) person and it is a shame that so many internet warriors and would be instructors contaminate the minds of the uninitiated with their bogus information. The understanding and implementation of sound tactics puts the shooter in an ADVANTAGIOUS position in relation to the BAD GUY and has nothing to do with marksmanship or gun handling. Tactics do, however, go hand in hand with MINDSET and can often carry the day, even if one were to be unarmed. Shooting Hell out of a piece of cardboard is not the sum of the equation.
 

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A part of my 'grip' is having my thumb over the safety. Train like that. Now I don't even think about it, my thumb is over the safety. Switching it off is natural as my finger approaches the trigger. I do drills where the gun is on something w/ safety on. I have to pick it up and run it. I cannot remember a single click, no bang because the safety is still on. Or any click, no bang w/ my carry guns.

Peace of mind w/ a toddler in the house too. He's a curious little bugger too.
Positive retention in the holster. No way he can get it out or get to any vital parts.
Grip safety that he couldn't possibly activate (hands are too small) if I screw up and he gets his hands on the weapon.
Single sided thumb safety that is covered by the holster.
It's either on my person or in the safe, no exceptions.

It's about learning too, I've made mistakes along the way. Admit them, confront them and change your methods.
 
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