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The instructor then proceeded to tell the class that 1911s, and all other firearms with external safeties, are dangerous to the user because you will forget to take the safety off if you get in a gun fight. That's why all PD's don’t allow them any more...too many cops screwing up and getting shot. He also told the class, while looking at me, that even if you can make small groups it doesn’t mean you can shoot tactically. I have never rolled my eyes so hard before.
Hey, HE's probably right. HE must have FUBAR'd the safety and had problems fighting with a 1911. Sure hope no one got hurt on HIS watch.

Thank you for your service DR505.
 
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Now that I am retired I qualify annually for LEOSA, but I also get the state CC permit. I went through the Idaho “enhanced” class over the weekend (9 hours of joy).

I was using my Wilson CQB. Course of fire was 100 rounds at 10 yards in an 8” circle with NO TIME LIMIT (not scored though!). I kept all 100 in a group smaller than a baseball. Most of the shooters' targets looked like they had used buckshot at 25 yards. After the shooting we went back into class.

The instructor then proceeded to tell the class that 1911s, and all other firearms with external safeties, are dangerous to the user because you will forget to take the safety off if you get in a gun fight. That's why all PD's don’t allow them any more...too many cops screwing up and getting shot. He also told the class, while looking at me, that even if you can make small groups it doesn’t mean you can shoot tactically. I have never rolled my eyes so hard before.

His background was many years as a casino “SWAT” security guard in Vegas.

Sometimes I do miss being on the job.
It is not dangerous, but requires safety to be disengaged prior to use. This is a problem, because I like tiny guns for carry. They are made by: SiG, Kimber, Colt,.....(SiG p238 or p938 for example) in .380 or 9x19, but that means playing with small safety lever. That is why I prefer DAO semi-autos for carry.
 

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So sick of seeing that little girl's face. Maybe when she hit's puberty, she will understand that electricity is not generated in the wall socket for her cell phone, computer, etc..
Simply amazing how so many think she is spot on. They should all go outside and howl at the moon along with the fool that thought he had something significant to say to the OP. Dumbassery and lack of skill are welcomed in our society.

John Browning rocks. Plastic guns are for wannabes to play with.
I feel the exact same way millimeter55. Of course, full disclosure, I did rename the somewhat-rusted 55 gallon burn barrel that I have up at my cottage the, "Greta Thunberg Memorial Burn Barrel." Even painted her name on the side of that baby------I figured that Greta deserved that honor! ;)
 
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I have assisted teaching CCW. The primary instructor was ex-Ranger in the VN war.
we had everyone shoot a 1911 during breaks. Many students switched over. We pushed dry fire practice at homeat least once a week.
i no longer carry any pistols without safeties. It slows me down fumbling to click a safety that isnt there. Yes the type of shooting at CCW class is bottom rung easy. I usually use headshots and not center mass just to make it a little challenging.
Tactical is strategy, not how one shoots.
 

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If I go DAO, its a jframe snub in my pocket. Condition orange.
And I for one am totally opposed to making fun if developmentally delayed and emotionally immature children.
 

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That guy sounds like a winner. 1911's suck so bad that they were issue to our armed forces for nearly 100yrs. When Glocks first came out there were quite a number of self inflicted wounds. One place I stopped in had a case full of used, new Glocks. Asked the guy what was up and he said the local PD had ordered them to switch over but a couple of officers had shot themselves in the leg drawing them so they turned them all in. Turns out the guys were yanking them from the holster with their fingers in the trigger guard. Training fixed that problem and the cops all have Glocks now.

Our CCW course took 2 days and was run by a retired Sheriff. It was pretty basic, just know what you are doing, the law and that you can use a firearm without hurting yourself with the recommendation of much further training. Range portion he recommended using the firearm you were going to carry but said you could use anything and to bring extra in case yours broke or something but we could bring as many as we wanted and do some shooting. I brought several. Did the shooting portion with my Target Masterpiece. It was untimed but you had to do it in a reasonable time not take all day. Several distances farthest being 10yrds and you had to keep, I think, 80% on target. Guy next to me actually shot my target! His gun jammed up, a cheap something or other, and he borrowed one of mine to complete the course. At 10yrds with my Masterpiece the target wasn't a challenge as it's better than I am. I shot a smiley face for kicks and the instructor laughed. Still have the target and my wifes who also did great.
 
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If I go DAO, its a jframe snub in my pocket. Condition orange.
And I for one am totally opposed to making fun if developmentally delayed and emotionally immature children.
J-snubs can also be fired while still in and THRU the jacket pocket if need be , up close & personal , without jamming. When I carry my M37 in a jacket pocket , usually during the cold months , my hand is usually in my pocket too , and on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #108 ·
J-snubs can also be fired while still in and THRU the jacket pocket if need be , up close & personal , without jamming. When I carry my M37 in a jacket pocket , usually during the cold months , my hand is usually in my pocket too , and on it.
Sounds like that might get expensive qualifying and practicing that shooting.
 

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Too many cops also get their service weapon wrestled away from them in a scuffle... and a manual safety will often bewilder the perp just long enough for the LEO to regain control of the situation. Just a couple days ago I was in a similar argument with another genius online who swore that a manual safety makes a weapon completely unsuitable as a combat weapon. Oooooookay...
Somebody should educate said genius on the history of the combat sidearm. Particularly the design that has seen more actual combat over more decades of service that any other in the history of sidearms. Make sure to change his diaper afterwards
 
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Never seen a 1911, give glock leg....
Just saying.
It is possible, although difficult. I know of one moron (am guessing he was carrying a 1911, but it could have been Tupperware) who could not follow simple directions (Rule-3) and shot himself in the foot at Gunsite.
 
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EB Kobra Carry, WC Protector, Colt Combat Elite, T Series BHP, and a Walther PPK to name a few faves
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Well, I do agree with the statement "Just because you can shoot small groups doesn't mean that you can shoot tactically."
Okay, fair enough. But, conversely, if you CAN'T shoot a decent group in slow or timed fire, you can't shoot "tactically" either (whatever that means.) If it means rapidly, from odd positions, under extreme pressure, etc.....well then you'd better have a deeply ingrained mastery of the fundamentals before all that comes into play to make things more difficult. Spray n pray works a little on a battlefield with a select fire weapon. On the streets, it's a recipe for disaster.
 

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A part of my 'grip' is having my thumb over the safety. Train like that. Now I don't even think about it, my thumb is over the safety. Switching it off is natural as my finger approaches the trigger.
Same. Once the grip rides up there, its second nature to click the safety off as the grip comes into position.
 

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Discussion Starter · #114 ·
Okay, fair enough. But, conversely, if you CAN'T shoot a decent group in slow or timed fire, you can't shoot "tactically" either (whatever that means.) If it means rapidly, from odd positions, under extreme pressure, etc.....well then you'd better have a deeply ingrained mastery of the fundamentals before all that comes into play to make things more difficult. Spray n pray works a little on a battlefield with a select fire weapon. On the streets, it's a recipe for disaster.
He never did define what he meant by “tactically”.
 

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Same. Once the grip rides up there, its second nature to click the safety off as the grip comes into position.
I have trained myself that when I come-up on-target, the finger is straight and the safety is still one (thumb is on the safety). Once I make the determination I may have to fire, the safety comes off but my finger may or may not go to the trigger.

I will also say the Colonel advocated keeping the safety on until the decision is made to fire, and once the firing is completed, the safety goes back on. This is a departure from The Modern Technique of the Pistol, but is probably what he advocated for Police.
 
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I wonder if he ever carried a shotgun or patrol rifle, did he forget about the safety? You will not forget if you train on it.
^^This^^

I shake my head when I read what people write on these forums about not wanting a handgun w/ a manual safety as they might forget to disengage it. This shows a lack of proper training and conditioning on their part, along w/ a failure to understand the strengths of that platform.

Cooper carried a shotgun and a rifle in dangerous situations, but do not know if he used a safety or not. I will say that the safety was taught in his Defensive Shotgun and Practical Rifle courses.

But, the Colonel was a Big Game hunter and did not use a safety while hunting dangerous game. In that situation he believed that trigger discipline was the best safety.
 

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The 1911 was the first auto pistol I ever shot.
All controls feel second nature to me.
Other pistols have me fumbling around with, as I don’t use them much, and don’t care for them.

if I was in a bind, the 1911 is my best bet.
regardless of other’s opinions.

if I grew up in a different time, I am sure I would feel differently.

must say, I never had a case of glock leg though!
 

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I have trained myself that when I come-up on-target, the finger is straight and the safety is still one (thumb is on the safety). Once I make the determination I may have to fire, the safety comes off but my finger may or may not go to the trigger.

I will also say the Colonel advocated keeping the safety on until the decision is made to fire, and once the firing is completed, the safety goes back on. This is a departure from The Modern Technique of the Pistol, but is probably what he advocated for Police.
^^^^ This ^^^
This is how I train as well, and is also my mindset. Safety doesn't come off until I'm pretty sure I'm going to shoot, but trigger finger does not go to the trigger until I make the decision to shoot. JMHO.
 
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I'm at the point where flipping the safety off as I come on target is as subconscious as opening a beer as I pull it from the fridge. Heck I keep my trigger finger straight when using a screw gun until I'm ready to drive it in.
 
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