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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for real answers qnd would be most qppreciative if LEO will lend an ear and a voice.
Here's what I know for sure;
Statewide
An automobile is an extension of the home so Coloradans have the right to convey a weapon (for self defense) in their vehicle.
Residents who have been issued a CCW have the right to carry concealed except around schools and public buildings.
This right is abrogated if the permit holder is drinking and, from what I hear, the penalty for a permit holder is much more serious than for some other, non licensed a-hole who has been drinking and is in posession of a firearm.
Makes sense to me as in order to obtain the permit you must prove, among other things, that you do not have accohol or drug problems.
Municipalities cannot pass laws or ordinances that interfere with the above state mandated rights.

This is where facts end and fiction begins.
Both Denver and Boulder are run by people who would love to see the 2nd ammendment suspended or revoked. I know two members of DPD (a captain and a sargaent) who essentially support legally armed citizens but neither could assure me that a different Denver cop wouldn't bust my chops if he knew I was armed.
I have heard from many sources that if stopped in your vehicle that you should advise the officer that you have a weapon and a permit. Others have said that you don't disclose the fact that you are armed unless asked directly by the officer. Still others have said to lie to avoid the hassle. Obviously lying to the law is less than bright (particularly if it gives him probable cause to search the vehicle) but is offering information (" I have a gun") that is not directly incidental to the stop any less bright?
Should this disclosure be dependent upon the jurisdiction you are in?
I was told by a representative on the issuing Sheriffs Department (Douglas county) that beyond the Federal and State restrictions ther were no hard and fast rules. He mentioned one permit holder who's weapon was discovered while visiting a (Denver) car dealer. He was detained, cuffed and booked on the premise that the dealer did not want armed citizens on the premises. The Sheriff told me that business have the right to ban weapons in their establishments and places of business but in most cases it's not posted. Obviously the armed citizen does not take his weapon into a strip joint or martini bar but what if he is going out to dinner and has no intention of taking a drink? Will the ordinances be the same in Walsenburg as they are in Boulder?
Last but not least.......if a local police officer perceives that an armed citizen is a threat to his own personal philosophy of gun rights and takes measures
to show this citizen "the light" will he suffer any repercussions or will he receive an "attaboy' from some like minded superior.
Looking forward to your responses.
The bottom line is that some are with us and some are agin' us......How is one to know when his excercise of his legal rights will be commended or condemned by the people
 

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Um, maybe you could number your questions in a list. Your post is a little hard to follow.
True.

I am an NRA instructor for (name excluded to keep the Peoplez Republik from getting too upset) Club and the officer that teaches the law segment of the required course for obtaining the CCW says: "Tell the truth, but do not volunteer information." He then quickly expands on that to say that - any - lie to Law Enforcement immediately makes you a suspect.

My preference is to, should I be stopped, immediately dig out my wallet, place it on the car dash, open the drivers window and put both hands on the steering wheel at 10 & 2. When the officer approaches, answer questions, follow instructions - precisely. DO NOT call the officer "Sir" (especially if it is a female :) ). If you are told to exit the car (not likely unless you are doing something else wrong), put both hands outside of the window and - then - tell the officer you are armed and ask how he wants to handle it.

Easiest way is to stay out of Denver. Roads are such that it is easy to drive around it and that eliminates most of the problem. As far as Boulder goes, most of the PD and SO there are mellow, compared to Denver.

But then again, I know many of the Boulder PD/SO from the range :)
 

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Long time CO permit holder here.

1. It's illegal to be intoxicated and be in posession of a firearm. It is not illegal to consume alcolhol. Same limits as driving apply. (not endorsing it, just explaining the law)

2. I've been lectured for not declaring that I'm carrying when at a traffic stop. Current routine involves handing my permit to the officer along with my DL. It avoids the use of the word "gun", which seem to make most officers twitch.

3. My understanding is that it is legal to carry in Denver and Boulder counties as long as you are passing through and not a resident. It's been years since I looked into this one, so you might want to continue searching for the answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You guys are good! This is the type of informed input one expects from this forum and I hope this is helpful to all of the Coloradans tuned in. Nobody knows it all but collectively we can probably solve this puzzle.
Looking forward to additional input particularly from you LEO people.
Thanks
 

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My preference is to, should I be stopped, immediately dig out my wallet, place it on the car dash, open the drivers window and put both hands on the steering wheel at 10 & 2. When the officer approaches...
Depending on where you keep your wallet, this could be the best advice, or the worst advice. I would not want to be fidgeting around in the car trying to pull my wallet out of my front or back pocket while a cop is approaching. Chances are he may already have accessed your vehicle and owner info and may know you have a CCW. It sure would suck to put him in a situation where he isn't sure what the heck you were doing in the car.

What I do when I am stopped, is turn off my vehicle, turn on my interior lights if it's dark, immediately place my hands on the steering wheel and wait for the officer to approach. If I am asked for my DL/reg/ins, I politely inform the officer that I am a CPL holder carrying a firearm. I then ask if it would be okay for me to remove my seatbelt and procure my wallet from my right front pocket, or if he would prefer I do something different.

If I am not carrying, I would still advise the officer that I am a CPL holder, but not carrying a firearm currently. That's just what I do though.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have been told that the local constabularies here in Colorado do not have access to CCW permit carriers. Anybody know that for an absolute fact?
 

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I will relay to you what I know from what I've been told and from personal experience.

I am an NRA instructor and live in Douglas County, I've sat in on many presentations by many different LEOs. The general concensus is that using common sense will get you through. If I am stopped I try to have my driver's license ready before the officer gets to me if I can do it without flopping around too much, I will always answer questions truthfully, but I don't give my CCW permit to the officer with my driver's license. I've only been contacted twice in the years I've been carrying and wasn't asked either time if I was carrying. I would, however, tell the officer I was armed if he asked me to step out of the vehicle, or if he chose to search my vehicle I would tell him the location of any firearms in the vehicle. I never keep a gun in the glovebox, (you don't want to be getting your registration out and have the officer see your .44 mag in there). The reasons given to me by cops for not volunteering information about guns he would not necessarily know about is that it could elevate the officer's stress (for lack of a better word) level (especially in some younger cops), and could escalate a routine traffic stop into an even more unpleasant experience. Does an officer need to know you have a gun in your trunk or under your seat if he stops you for going ten over? Probably not. If he decides he wants to search your vehicle for some reason should you tell him about it? Absolutely. If there is even a remote posibilty of him seeing your rig when you reach for your wallet, you better explain things to him and ask what he would like you to do. He may want to disarm you, just carefully follow his instructions. Think how you would feel in his shoes, and he probably won't have a partner.

I have carried in Denver, but I don't have much business there and intend to keep it that way. Same thing with Boulder, I don't know why anyone would want to go there anyway.

If you have a gun, don't drink. I know what the law says, but if you ever have to use your gun in self-defense, do you really want the jury to have to argue whether or not you were in control with a BAC of .07?

A business owner can restrict CCW holders from carrying on their property, but they need to post it. (Been to the Pepsi Center lately?) I think it's pretty chicken-shasta for someone to let you in their place of business and then want to have you arrested if they find out you're carrying. (Another good reason to make sure your gun stays CONCEALED.) Remember, someone who's not around guns much if at all becomes very alarmed when they see a gun. You do not want to be the subject of a 'man with a gun' call.

There are no hard and fast rules to follow when you are contacted by the cops, they are people like you and me and will react differently to a situation. Use common sense and act with a good heart and you will be fine.

orutra, PM me if you have any questions, we will be starting classes in a couple months and the LEO we have is a Douglas County Sherriff's Deputy who gives the best LEO brief for the NRA PPITH class I've seen. We try to limit classes to around ten students but on LEO night sometimes it's standing room only.

As CCW holders, we have to understand we are surrounded by non-gun people, the better trained and educated we are, the better image we project, and the more 'tolerated' we will be.

Sorry for the ramble, I'll shut up now.
 

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Do you mean by that, do they know you are a permit holder if you don't tell them?

They most definitely do know that you are a permit holder. The very first time I was pulled over while carrying (no ticket issued, purely harrassment because it was 3:00AM) I neglected to mention it. When the officer came back to my car after checking my license, he lectured me for not declaring that I was carrying. There is no way he could have known unless it popped up when he ran my license.
 

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Yes, they know you are a CCW holder as soon as they run your license. Neither time I was stopped did they ask if I was carrying. There are variables to consider. Time of day, type of vehicle, neighborhood, age/appearance of the driver, and the reason you were stopped would all influence what the officer does. Once I was stopped around 5:00 am (on the way to work) and the second time around 4:00 in the afternoon (going home from work) driving a run-of-the-mill white work truck, I'm still in the 'Guard so my hair stays short and shaved. I'm sure those two stops went smoother than if I was driving through Five-Points at 2 am in a Honda Accord with 20" rims with four of my 'peeps' hanging out the windows.
 

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I work with a grass roots gun organization here in Colorado. There is no "database" for CCW holders. This has successfully been defended against when pro gun legislators tagged an ammendment that called for crimial and civil penaties should said list be made public as it did in VA. The sponsors of the bill then pulled it. Anyone what to bet if they would keep it confidential?

What you will get is some counties enter CCW holders as a "person of interest". Cops here can give more info than I on this but I would think if a person "popped" as "a person of interest" I'd rather have my permit in the officer's hand before they saw that come up.

Re: Denver. They have somehow been very successful at beating the state and federal government on basic rights stuff. There is a law in Colorado that standardized gun laws state wide and specifically did not allow for preemption. But somehow Denver gets around this. They also trample on property rights laws with the "nuisance law".

I'm very discrete when I carry but assume I'll get really jacked with if I have to defend myself in Denver.
 

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If I read that right are you saying there's no preemption in CO and/or that you cannot CCW in Denver? How about other cities?

Reid
 

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If I read that right are you saying there's no preemption in CO and/or that you cannot CCW in Denver? How about other cities?

Reid
There's not supposed to be preemption in Colorado, but Denver has a AWB. They recognize CCW laws in Denver.
 

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Thanks for the quick reply. I just did a little research of my own and found that CO's CCW law's preemption provisions are quite strongly worded and frankly I don't see how a city could get around them.

However, I found the following provision under "Types of Weapons"

A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.

Shouldn't that pretty well sink an AWB in Denver? Or are black rifles banned by state law? How does that work?

Reid
 

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Thanks for the quick reply. I just did a little research of my own and found that CO's CCW law's preemption provisions are quite strongly worded and frankly I don't see how a city could get around them.

However, I found the following provision under "Types of Weapons"

A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.

Shouldn't that pretty well sink an AWB in Denver? Or are black rifles banned by state law? How does that work?

Reid
Yes it "SHOULD" sink an AWB in Denver. They've not gone after the CCW like evil black rifles for some reason. Back to CCW...... Denver is a very anti 2nd A city. I you use deadly force to defend yourself don't expect to get a free ride because of the Castle Doctrine & Stand Your Ground laws in Colorado either. I'm not trying to make you more fearful of the aftermath of a shooting with gloom and doom. Just be aware that cops and DA in Denver will most likely not be your buddy after a good shoot.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You guys are cookin'....................(muy bueno in Denver)
Let's keep this going.
Lo Drag, Am I correct in assuming that AWB is "all weapons ban"?
What is the "stand your ground" law.
Thanks
 

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The general concensus is that using common sense will get you through. If I am stopped I try to have my driver's license ready before the officer gets to me if I can do it without flopping around too much...
The only flaw with the logic of getting your DL ready is that you are making the assumption that you are getting pulled over because you did something wrong.

I don't assume that because I am pulled over that I am doing something wrong and need to "present my papers".

In the last 20 years, I think I've been pulled over for doing something wrong as many times as I've been pulled over for not doing anything wrong.

I've had "nice cops" pull me over to let me know I had a tired going flat and ask if I needed any help changing it. I've been pulled over because one of my boat tie downs had come loose and the officer wanted to make sure I knew. I was even been pulled over once in Georgia at a speedtrap while driving home from Florida. When the cop approached and saw I had my wife and kids, he apologized for pulling me over and said he must have pulled over the wrong red minivan. Not sure if he saw the family and thought he'd give me a break or if he saw how much of a dork am I and felt sorry for me.

Why not just wait and see what happens next time, unless you just know you're guilty of something? :)
 

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Well, if you're speeding or whatever, people usually know it and you might as well act accordingly. If the blues come on behind me, I usually know why, and from my experience and from talking with the cops I know, a 'what seems to be the problem, officer' coming out of an inocent looking boyish grin doesn't go down well. Too, I feel it's a courtesy to the officer to have your identification ready, or 'present your papers' as you say. How would you feel as a cop making a traffic stop on a lonely stretch of road at night by yourself and have to stand there and watch the guy you just pulled over reach his hand back out of sight to get his wallet? You can't tell me the thought 'What if that hand comes out with a gun?' doesn't cross their minds. I know it would mine. It's not like getting your driver's license out is an admission of guilt or something. I've only been pulled over 4 or 5 times in the last 15 years or so, all for minor traffic offenses, but I'm sure I knew why every time.

I personally have never been pulled over to be informed of a flat tire, loose tie-down, or whatever. I'm sure it happens, most of the cops I know are nice people and don't jazz over pulling people over.

The Denver situation is strange, I'm not going to even pretend to understand it, I have a basic understanding of what the state law says, and my perseption is that Denver wants stricter laws in their area, which state law prohibits. That is a gross oversimplification of the situation I'm sure.

I would like to hear from some of the here cops and get their opinions....
 

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Bravo Sierra. If you're pulled over, for whatever reason, you're a fool if you don't have your DL and CWP ready to hand to the LEO, period. Keep your hands in the clear, of course, but never make him ask for your DL, that's just stupid. That man (or woman) wants to know who you are, immediately! Not your opinions on what you did or didn't do, and your rights as a US citizen. Leave your macho attitude and "I know my rights" BS at home. Insurance and registration, sure, gotta dig for that, nobody keeps that info in their wallet. Cooperation at every level is the key. Let 'em know you're armed, and where it is, and ask how they'd like to proceed.
 
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