[VaughnT]

You run an armored car and have to stop at a chain store to make a pickup. The cash room measures 12'x 17'.

The safe is located 4' from the door, which opens into the room. If you are standing beside the safe when the door opens, you'll get pinched because there just isn't enough room.

For security purposes, you move up the room, facing the door, to sign your paperwork while the manager prepares the deposit.

While you're signing your receipt to show that you did pick up some bags, you see that the door is opening. You draw your weapon from its holster and wait to see who is entering.

Question: Did you just commit a felony by drawing your weapon even though you were not in fear of your life? Because the door opens into the room, you cannot ID the person entering until they clear the width of the door. You had no reason to expect a BG. No shots were heard. No screaming. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Question: Does it make sound tactical sense to unholster your weapon considering that a possible attacker coming through the door would be within the 21' circle everyone talks about?

Keep in mind that "unholstering" does not mean targeting, only a ready position with the barrel pointed in a safe direction.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

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When reason fails...

 

[shane45-1911]

Not sure how that scenario would play out, but up here in Canada a few years ago, a couple Brink's guards were prosecuted for drawing their weapons when they tried to stop a crime in progress (purse snatching, I believe). Apparently, the only time their weapon can be unholstered is to protect their own lives or the loot.

 

[Witherspoon]

Prudent and lawful in Virginia. There is a "Brandishing a firearm" code section (law) but this wouldn't fit as a violation. IMHO

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"Sic Semper Tyrannus"

 

[VaughnT]

Shane, I can see where Brinks might get in some heat for acting as police officers. Our policy is pretty much the same - no threat to you, keep it holstered.

Witherspooon, I thought it would be a good idea, myself. Seems others don't think like me.

As far as I can tell, "brandishing" or "pointing", both felonies in SC (I believe), must have an element carelessness or disregard. That is to say, you have to be acting in an immature, imbecilic manner that could result in harm to someone.

Simply drawing the weapon to decrease your reaction time, should this unidentified person turn out to be a bad person, when you are paid to haul money around, can't be termed as a crime.

That's my thinking.

 

[Deafdog]

maybe im wrong but it seems it would depend on the co. and there insurance co. ive seen
bank guards in ca. with gun out and pointed
to the ground by their side.

 

[GLV]

Lock the door. GLV

 

[jaydee]

Sadly... Laws that cover this are not uniform or consistent across the country, and even worse, Company policy may play a role here as well...

Does is make sound tactical sense? Sure.
I will sometimes observe the Brinks/Wells Fargo/etc guys/gals when they do their rounds... It's pretty sad... Many will carry the "pickup" with their strong side hand, or worse, with both hands, not keeping the strong side hand free... Might have to do with the weight of the bags, and strength of the "players".

Many of the "Armed Security" types I notice most carry wheelguns for crap-sakes...

To give you guys credit, It's not a job I would consider... ~$15/hr to risk my life, don't think so... I value mine more... Having said that, I can't imagine going into this kind of situation with something that holds a lot of rounds to fight my way back into the truck if needed, where one is a little safer from the flying lead hazards.

Does carrying a sidearm in the performance of this duty make sound tactical sense? Not even! Practical, probably, but I'd prefer an MP5k, or a shotgun, and the shortest route back to the truck possible

 

[Gonzo308]

A couple of years ago an armored courier was killed as he exited the truck with a bag of cash. The bag was the size of a couch cushion and wouldn't fit in his leather satchel correctly.

But in this case I don't think it mattered. A thug had watched the courrier make his drops at the bank for several weeks and when he stepped out of the truck that fateful day the thug emptied a revolver into him.

The poor bastard had ZERO reaction time. I however think that I would look everywhere around me before I stepped out of an armored car and wouldn't get out if there was anyone too close for my comfort.

Call me scared if you want to but same as it is now my motto would be. "I'm going home tonight".

Knowing the incident I just related I think drawing my weapon for my protection and keeping it at my side is not only acceptable but prudent.

 

[tomstark]

VaughnT
If it were me, I think I would keep it in the holster. I would have my hand on it, so I would only lose about 1/3 of a second over having it out and pointed down. I see a few problems. first off, you said you have NO Reason to think there is a problem. That would lead me to believe that it is possible there would be people who would have business walking through that door. Second, if I were going to knock you off, I would wait just outside the door, to surprise you as you came out. What do you do then? Come through the door with gun drawn? I understand you concern, and thinking these things out like this, getting varied opinions is the smart thing to do. Training and preparation are key to all things. Let's say as the door opens, you have your hand on your gun, then as the door gets to a point where you can see enough, you identify a threat. In the time it takes you to step to the side and squat down, you can have your gun drawn and already fired 2 or 3 shots. The time I am talking about here is just over 1 second. That is what training and pratice will do. If you have to think about what to do at the time, don't bother it is too late. You need to have your body trained so it will just react, leaving you that extra 1/10 of a second or so to make that choice that a jury or whoever will have hours to make.
Tom

 

[Edward429451]

I dis agree with tomstark, you're responsible for that money and should take no chances. If a friendly walks thru the door, they should be able to comprehend that you're keeping the money safe. If they dont like you being professional in your responsibilities, maybe they should hire someone else.

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"Always place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark"
Lazarus Long

 

[Patrickl]

Originally posted by Edward429451:
If a friendly walks thru the door, they should be able to comprehend that you're keeping the money safe. If they dont like you being professional in your responsibilities, maybe they should hire someone else.

So Edward if I hear you correctly what you're saying is that a professional shouldn’t take any chances and people should understand. OK, so let’s say you’re walking down the street openly carrying your gun and police officer tells you to stop and hand it over while you two talk. I assume by what you just said here you will understand.

 

[Mus]

Wouldnt it be a bit more prudent to just verbally challenge whoever is coming through the door? and why not have your partner waiting outside?

 

[jpwright]

You cheat, Patrickl. You remember what's said in other threads.

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If God didn't want us to own guns, why did He make the 1911?

 

[Patrickl]

Originally posted by jpwright:
You cheat, Patrickl. You remember what's said in other threads.

It's a skill I learned from my wife. She remembers EVERYTHING I have ever said to her and she NEVER lets me forget.




[This message has been edited by Patrickl (edited 08-09-2001).]

 

[Highspeed]

Originally posted by jaydee:


To give you guys credit, It's not a job I would consider... ~$15/hr to risk my life, don't think so... I value mine more...

Shoot, I did the job for half that, not that I'm especially proud of it. And I didn't do it for very long. Cheap bast...uh, anyway, that's another story.

I also agree with jaydee about a handgun being relatively useless. People don't just decide out of the blue to rob an armored truck. It's usually planned by more than one person and they have more firepower than you do as well as the element of surprise and a plan. If there is shooting to be done, 9 times out of 10 the armored car guy is a goner unless he gets really lucky, imo.

Pretty fun job, as far as jobs go. That was a long time ago, though. My company just sucked to work for. No, I won't name them, but I will say that you probably haven't heard of them.