Posts by James
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OK,
Here's the deal. Since Kimber's side of the story has not been presented thus far, I called Dennis.
He was quite familiar with your case, as he had talked to you about 20 minutes before your post was placed here. They were expecting you to post by 2:30, so I guess you lost the bet for somebody.
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned by you is that you were supposedly using remanufactured ammo. Is that correct? If so, what brand?
Also, they could not duplicate the double firing...is it possible that you were actually pulling the trigger without knowing it?
http://www.1911forum.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/001284.html
In this thread, where you say the smith managed to get the hammer to drop in an "obvious out of battery condition", how far back was the slide.
Technically, the hammer dropping slightly out of battery is not the same as the gun firing on its own or “doubling”. One thing that I agree with is that the gun should be disconnected well before the slide goes back 1/4". When I asked Dennis about this, he said about 1/4" and when I disagreed, he said he had never actually measured it. The disconnector does not "instantly" disconnect upon the slightest downward movement so the hammer will drop on a vast majority of 1911s with the slide slightly to the rear; my guess is .12 or less. BUT, for the cartridge to ignite with the gun out of battery, that would mean the hammer would have to travel the .5 of an inch or so from a dead stop faster than the slide travels the .12 back to full battery at full speed. NOT LIKELY. Also, please remember that the slide itself, will hold the hammer back, or block its movement fully forward, until it is close to being in full battery. I will have to go home and make this measurement. In any case, if the gun disconnects at any point during the cycle, you have to release pressure on the trigger and pull it again to get another shot.
Now I am not defending Kimber as much as posing some questions about the "rest of the story". I can't say that every Kimber I have seen has been perfect, but I often wonder if some of these problems should actually be blamed on the gun.
I am also not defending Dennis, as your experience may have been different than mine. I will say that he called back within 20 minutes of me leaving the message. He did not know why I was calling as I only left my name and a message that I had a few questions. He took the time to answer my questions thoroughly. He even called later because he forgot that he had already called me and was making sure that all of the calls were returned. I know he has a New York accent, but being from NJ, I don’t see that as being rude. I normally don’t associate rudeness and standoffishness with someone who will chat with you on the phone for 30 minutes about Internet rumors and Kimber bashing.
I also learned, for the first time, that Kimber has links to this forum and others chock full of snipers Kimber grievances.
I usually let these opinion threads go, as it is usually “brand X “Vs” brand Z and similar non-sense. I am getting to the point though that I can't see this forum as being an outlet for specific gripes, under anonymous screen names, and only telling part of the story. I haven’t quite decided what I am going to do yet, so I’ll just post what I know about 1911 mechanics and some of what I learned by talking to Dennis today. You can take it for whatever you get out of it.
Here's the deal. Since Kimber's side of the story has not been presented thus far, I called Dennis.
He was quite familiar with your case, as he had talked to you about 20 minutes before your post was placed here. They were expecting you to post by 2:30, so I guess you lost the bet for somebody.
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned by you is that you were supposedly using remanufactured ammo. Is that correct? If so, what brand?
Also, they could not duplicate the double firing...is it possible that you were actually pulling the trigger without knowing it?
http://www.1911forum.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/001284.html
In this thread, where you say the smith managed to get the hammer to drop in an "obvious out of battery condition", how far back was the slide.
Technically, the hammer dropping slightly out of battery is not the same as the gun firing on its own or “doubling”. One thing that I agree with is that the gun should be disconnected well before the slide goes back 1/4". When I asked Dennis about this, he said about 1/4" and when I disagreed, he said he had never actually measured it. The disconnector does not "instantly" disconnect upon the slightest downward movement so the hammer will drop on a vast majority of 1911s with the slide slightly to the rear; my guess is .12 or less. BUT, for the cartridge to ignite with the gun out of battery, that would mean the hammer would have to travel the .5 of an inch or so from a dead stop faster than the slide travels the .12 back to full battery at full speed. NOT LIKELY. Also, please remember that the slide itself, will hold the hammer back, or block its movement fully forward, until it is close to being in full battery. I will have to go home and make this measurement. In any case, if the gun disconnects at any point during the cycle, you have to release pressure on the trigger and pull it again to get another shot.
Now I am not defending Kimber as much as posing some questions about the "rest of the story". I can't say that every Kimber I have seen has been perfect, but I often wonder if some of these problems should actually be blamed on the gun.
I am also not defending Dennis, as your experience may have been different than mine. I will say that he called back within 20 minutes of me leaving the message. He did not know why I was calling as I only left my name and a message that I had a few questions. He took the time to answer my questions thoroughly. He even called later because he forgot that he had already called me and was making sure that all of the calls were returned. I know he has a New York accent, but being from NJ, I don’t see that as being rude. I normally don’t associate rudeness and standoffishness with someone who will chat with you on the phone for 30 minutes about Internet rumors and Kimber bashing.
I also learned, for the first time, that Kimber has links to this forum and others chock full of snipers Kimber grievances.
I usually let these opinion threads go, as it is usually “brand X “Vs” brand Z and similar non-sense. I am getting to the point though that I can't see this forum as being an outlet for specific gripes, under anonymous screen names, and only telling part of the story. I haven’t quite decided what I am going to do yet, so I’ll just post what I know about 1911 mechanics and some of what I learned by talking to Dennis today. You can take it for whatever you get out of it.
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None of you have to apologize and I am not saying you didn't have a problem, but we are only getting your side of the story. As far as proper context goes, you have to wonder about somebody who will get on the web as soon as possible each time they have an interaction with Dennis to give everybody the bad news play by play. This isn't a football game. SEEMS like you have an axe to grind and you are trying to recruit people to harass Kimber rather than resolving your problem.
http://kimber.infopop.net/3/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=729299964&f=393299635&m=3782904912
Taking into account all I have read about this subject, your demanding attitude, and what APPEARS to be a smear campaign that you are on, I would eventually tell you to screw off.
[This message has been edited by James P (edited 11-29-2001).]
Joined
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3,617 Posts
Regarding paragraph 1: Wasn't your first thread labelled "Thoroughly disgusted with Kimber" rather than (example) "How does this work?"
Second paragraph: You don't function test a disconnector by taking the slide off and pressing it with your finger. If it is disconnecting within 1/16 of an inch of slide travel, my guess would be that it works pretty good. Of course it is impossible to know for sure without handling it.
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3,617 Posts
In response to Sniper's email, the gist of this comment was that it is uncommon for a company to link you to a place containing complaints and grief about their products and service. I know there is good stuff in there too, but the happy people never seem to type as much as the unhappy ones.
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