Convince me to by a DW -- or not

1230 Views 15 Replies 9 Participants Last post by vic303, Nov 5, 2005

Mamba Jack

Discussion Starter · Nov 3, 2005

Ladies & Gents,

I have been wanting a CCO for a while now, and I am trying to decide whether to 1) wait for an old Colt, 2) buy a DW, 3) buy a new Gunsite CCO, or 4) send a Caspian frame/slide to somebody famous to make the "end-all, be all" CCO.

Please bear with me as I assail you w/ questions.

1) Mr. Severns has expressed concerns about non-standard grip length. How widespread is this problem?

2) The DW's are S70, right?

3) What MIM parts are guys up in arms about? Anything besides the slide release?

4) I understand they have the external extractor. Anything else "non-standard" about them?

5) Is it worth the $850?

Thanks in advance,
MJ

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PhantomRider

· #2 · Nov 3, 2005

I'll try
1) ???? Not sure about this, don't remember much except the one thread awhile back, not sure dave was concerned about, only stated it was differant and made using the slide stop differant if I recall???
2) YES
3) They use very little MIM and all thier parts are either Brown, Wilson, STI, King or McCormick, all top shelf parts, not many MIM issues with DW line.
4) I would have to say yes based on the current market, especially for a CBOB.

I have 2 Dan Wessons and a Kimber, my DW are by far the better value and give nothing up to the Kimber, in fact the Kimber cost more but had much more MIM and a plastic mainspring houseing.

I'm sure some will chime in with more info but that's about all I can tell ya.

Chevy_Guy1977

· #3 · Nov 3, 2005

Well, phantom answered the yes/no questions, but I'll try and convince you to buy one. I've got a 5" Patriot Expert, and love it. I was dead set on buying a Kimber because they are suposedly the best production 1911, until I saw the DW. There is no comparison between the two. DW 1911's are fine guns, and even though prices have been raised, they are still worth the money. The CCO would be perfect if you want a gun in commander size that is accurate, well-built, and reliable, not to mention quite handsome. If you going to carry it (or want something different) look into the C-BOB. Personally I don't think you can go wrong with a DW, and I'm on the lookout for any in my area to snatch em up. Good luck with whatever you choose to get.
Chevy

Iggy

· #4 · Nov 3, 2005

This one works OK

This one is in 10mm and has stood up to some pretty salty reloads.

I changed the MSH, substituted Alumagrips, and installed an oversized FPS and it has been good to go.

CCO in 10mm is pushing things, but if you are looking at a .45 you should really enjoy the gun if you get it..

I would grab it while you can.

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harmonii

· #5 · Nov 3, 2005

More convincing.....

I apologize for the following over-simplified but true dramatization.

A friend of mine purchased a Springfield recently, nice piece, had some ok parts, nice trigger and hammer, rosewood grips, but the 2-piece guide rod I did not like, it had fixed Novak's and a standard barrel. He will have to invest in an FLGR, new barrel (and fitting), slide work, and adjustable sights, just to make it close to my DW, and when he's done, he'll have over $1000 in it in parts -alone-, not to mention the 'smithing. It still won't be a DW.

I don't want to sound like I'm frothing at the mouth, but I did my research before I purchased my DW, and I do not regret it one bit. I have no experience with post-CZ acquisition guns, will leave that to others to tackle. Also, unless you have Dave S. give -any- 1911 a "reliability" job, I'd not want to use it as CCW, personally I use a 640PD. -Harmon

Mamba Jack

Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 3, 2005

Chevy_Guy1977 said:
If you going to carry it (or want something different) look into the C-BOB.
Chevy

Not to be contrarian, but I wondered if you could expound on that statement. I have small hands, and the full-size (GM/Cmdr) grip does nothing for me, other than give me a place to put 1 more round. Are you saying you wouldn't carry something on an Ofcr's frame? Just curious.

Thanks for the replies, guys. Keep your thoughts coming!

Thanks,
MJ

Shootcraps

· #7 · Nov 3, 2005

1. wtfo?

2. Yes.

3. I am not on the "I Hate MIM" bandwagon. I've never had a MIM part that broke so I don't worry about it.

4. Yes. The quality. It's definitely very high standard. :rock:

5. Yes.

Noklue3

· #8 · Nov 3, 2005

Real simple: Yes, get the DW...Everything else is details....

Take care,
Art

Mamba Jack

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 4, 2005 (Edited)

Shootcraps said:
1. wtfo?

This is what I get for using the Search function prior to asking a question.

Mr. Severns said,

FWIW, the CCO frame is not to spec as regards grip length. It's too long. As such, the Wilson mags frequently won't fit, and need to have their plastic base plate filed down. Have had a few customers want their frame mag lip notch raised, instead of monkeying with a bunch of different mags. Also FWIW, the front sight is actually for a Springfield. Some find it spot on, while others find it to shoot either too high or too low.

It's #3 on this one. In Post #6, Mr. Severns alludes to an "early release", intimating that perhaps this problem has been fixed.

I just wondered if I was getting that right.

Thanks,
MJ

Shootcraps

· #10 · Nov 4, 2005

Thanks for the info. So the DW CCO is not an exact Officer's frame. weird.

Dave Severns

· #11 · Nov 4, 2005

Mamba:
Greetings. I'm Dave. Will be sure to give my Dad your best, however.

Anyhow, in answer to your questions, let's take a look-see...

1) The CCO's, as with many/most guns went through pre-production/early production and regular production phases. The early production and regular production units use entirely different frames. The early unit is very std-Officer's in appearance, and was available in blued steel. Am sure our friend Vic303 will chime in a show a pic of hers. Alternately, just do a search. The regular production CCO used a stainless frame of entirely different configuration. This investment-cast frame has a grip which is slightly longer in length, such that it's lower termination is flush with the bottom of a flush-base plate magazine. This can cause minor issues with plastic base-plated mags, as I indicated in that quote posted above. Also, this stainless frame has a frontstrap raduis which is much like that of an older Springfield. A bit more square-ish, if you will, as you can see in Iggy's photo, above.

2) Of course, they're Dan Wessons.

3) The slide release used in the regular production CCO is either an EGW unit or an Ed Brown part. Neither is MIM, and both are quality parts! Regarding MIM in general, I have seen these parts fail, and regard MIM just ever-so-slightly higher than plastic... I'll say no more.

4) Depends upon what you consider "standard". In short, these are NOT a Colt-style CCO. They are a different animal, that just happen to use a slide of Commander length and a frame of approximately Officer's ACP length. They work just fine, and are quite accurate.

5) Cannot help you here. Kinda like "is a Whopper worth $2.99?". Depends how hungry you are.

Take care.

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vic303

· #12 · Nov 4, 2005 (Edited)

Since Dave was kind enough to reference my CCO, I'll tell you a little about it. I got it new this year. It is a well-built 1911, however it DID have some ultimately minor issues out of box.

1. It had an intermittent ability to fire a round--due to an underweight mainspring. Apparently at least in the early two tone CCOs (like mine) DW chose to stock an 18# spring, rather than a std Officer's spring of 23#. This caused it to fail to fire frequently. It was fixed for less than 10$.

2. Slide fit was tight, causing initial break-in issues. Those resolved in less than 500 rnds with diligent cleaning and hand-cycling of the slide.

3. The MSH wsa textured in a unique way--never seen any other like it. It has "negative" checkering, aka little pyramidal divots in the metal. This was a cause of great concern as it created a breeding ground for rust! I did try a replacement MSH, but the pinhole alignment was off (either the CCO is drilled funny, or the spare MSH was). So I sent off my stock MSH to Tripp Research for hard chroming, and it has been beautiful and RUST FREE since then! Probably the best 8$ I've spent in a long time...

That's pretty much it, for the issues the pistol has had thus far. As it is an early CCO, it is possible to slingshot the slide, even with a bufferpad in place, IIRC. I did remove the blue buffer that came on the pistol to allow slightly greater slide travel. I added skate tape to the frontstrap, and Davidson G10 grips to it. Mine came with the wonderful XS 24/7 nightsights which I love! NO, they are not target sights--they are carry sights, and that's what my DW is--my carry pistol of choice!

Here's a pic:

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Dave Severns

· #13 · Nov 4, 2005

Another view of vic303's early production CCO:

BTW, the pattern on your MSH is called 'knurling", as opposed to checkering.

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vic303

· #14 · Nov 4, 2005

Hey Dave, thanks for the name 'Knurling'! I've been trying to figure out what to call it. Any idea who makes them? I'd buy another in a heartbeat for my other 1911. I really like the knurling as opposed to checkering.

Chevy_Guy1977

· #15 · Nov 4, 2005

Mamba Jack said:
Not to be contrarian, but I wondered if you could expound on that statement. I have small hands, and the full-size (GM/Cmdr) grip does nothing for me, other than give me a place to put 1 more round. Are you saying you wouldn't carry something on an Ofcr's frame? Just curious.

Thanks for the replies, guys. Keep your thoughts coming!

Thanks,
MJ

I'd be happy to elaborate!

It's basicaly the same size grip frame it just has a diagonal cut at the corner where the botom of the gripframe and the MSH meet to make it more concealable. BTW, it is usually the grip frame that is the hardest part of a gun to conceal, so this is a plus. I personally don't mind the mildly different feel of the bobbed frame, and as I mentioned earlier would buy one if I came accross one. Since you say that you have small hands, it is possible that since the palm of your hand contacts the gripframe differently, you could grip the gun better, but I'm not sure.

I didn't mean to sound like I wouldn't carry a CCO. I was just saying since they are the roughly the same price and the CBOB would have an edge on concealability, that you might want to look at that model as well if you want to carry. I don't think you could go wrong with either, so get which one suits your needs best.
Chevy

vic303

· #16 · Nov 5, 2005

I'm not sure a CBOB or any other bobtailed grip would be 'more' concealable than an officer length grip. The officer grip is still shorter than the full length bobtailed ones--even the later edition DW CCO's should be shorter than a CBOB. All the bobtail does IMHO, is lop off the back corner which can make it more comfortable to carry IWB as you don't have the back corner of the grip digging into your ribs.

On me, anyway, and maybe it's different for women than it is for you guys, but the bobtailed grips are still a bit long for me to conceal as well as I hide an officer grip.

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