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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have posted about this before, but I wanted to get some your opinions again now that I have some targets that show what I am talking about.

I have a full size CQB that seems to hit roughly 2 inches high and 2 inches left for me (give or take) at 10 yards. I have been shooting for about 18 years, most of that time having been spent shooting 1911's. I typically shoot at 10 - 15 yards and my primary "interests" are recreation and self-defense as opposed to serious competition (bullseye) shooting.

The first two targets are typical of what I see. The last one is just included to contrast what happens at shorter distance (5 yards). My question is, does this appear to be an issue of sights that need to be adjusted or an issue of shooter error ? Or, am I being too picky and this is "close enough" to POA ?

Small squares are 1 square inch in size. Please see the other two targets in my replies below.

Any opinions/thoughts are welcome. Thanks !
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Here is the second:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Here is the second target:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
and the third:
 

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alzo,

The first target was better than the second and the thrid was the best, considerably over the first two. My guess is these were done offhand and with fsctory loads. Remember different ammo will print differently.

I would recommend three things, then post your results again.

1. Re-shoot from a sand bag or similar rest position to get the steadiest position. Tis alone will tighten up your groups. Use 5 shot groups.

2. Try running the target out to 20 or 25 yards and recheck the pattern.

3. Let another shooter try their hand at it, perhaps someone who is a good shooter.

Sights can be adjusted but first make sure you get high quality sight alignment and trigger squeeze on the test target. My initial guess is shooter error. Sight alignment and trigger control. Not flaming you JMO. Overall not bad groups. I know you want them dead center, don't we all!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The first target was the "first of the day", with me fresh and concentrating. The second target was shot with a little less care. What I notice, if I shoot say, 32 rounds at one target, I will have a large hole right where the large hole is on Target #2, with a handful of flyers scattered about that are my fault.

Target #3 is deceiving. As I indicated, it was shot at only 5 yards to use up my ammo at the end of the day and just to see what it would look like.

All rounds fired were Sellier & Bellot 230gr FMJ.
 

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Looks to me like you're pushing the trigger to the left, instead of straight back. Put more of the pad of your trigger finger on the trigger. Do some safe dry-fire practice on a blank white wall to see if your front sight moves when the hammer falls. Practice five minutes, 2-3 times a day 'til it doesn't move.

Next, get some Target Dots or some NRA Bullseye targets for range use. Use a "six o'clock" hold (place the dot/bull on top of your front sight and then shift your focus to the front sight only. Do NOT look downrange after each shot; concentrate on getting the front sight back down, getting the fuzzy ball on top of it, breathe, let the air out a bit, and then start the trigger press until you get a surprise shot.

Have a friend load your magazines w/ball & dummy. Your sight alignment and trigger control mastery or lack thereof will become immediately apparent for all to see. Shoot five shots, THEN look downrange at your target. Paste 'em up and start over.

Start at seven yards. When they're all making one ragged hole, move to ten, 15, 20, and then 25. When you start getting cocky, move out to 50. That's when you really find out if you're holding as well as you think you are.
 

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I agree with Andy and that is what I was suggesting when I said shooters error.

Go back and try what I suggested next time at the range. Good point however is shoot about 20 rounds to warm up then do a sighting in test.

For your dry fire make it interesting and put a few small 1/4" dots on a blank piece of paper then tape it to some cardboard and tape both to a wall. Put a full length pencil w/ eraser down the bore of the CQB (no live ammo in the same room). Now get a sight picture with the gun at arms length and the pencil about 1/4" from the target. Fire three pencils into the paper and check the results. When you get good all thee will make just one dot.

Sight alignment and trigger control are the basics.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks to all for the replies and helpful info. Have a great holiday !
 
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