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I have a question about the C&R FFL. I have heard people say that you can get one and buy guns new at dealer prices, I have also heard that is not the case that if you tried to order/buy a new gun using a C&R that the ATF would be all over you. Does anyone here have one or know the truth?

(if this post is in the wrong place I am sorry wasen't shure where to post it.
 

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The C&R license entitles one to order only approved weapons (found on the BATF website). General rule of thumb: They must be at least fifty years old, not fully automatic, etc. Check the list to be sure of the specifics.

One word of caution.... Read the application closely. By signing it, you are waiving all of your Fourth Amendment Rights to be secure in your home. The ATF thugs can search your residence at ANY time, without probable cause. If this doesn't bother you, then by all means, get the Curio license.

Callahan
 

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A C&R licence allows you to purchase any firearm listed as a curio or relic by the ATF straight from the owner, even if he/she lives in another state. If you collect old guns like me it makes dealing through online auctions MUCH easier, as the weapon can be shipped straight to your address instead of being transfered via an FFL dealer. All you have to do is download the form from BATF's website, mail it and a $30 check, and wait a few months for them to approve it. It's good for three years. You'll also need to mail a copy of the application form to your friendly neighborhood police precinct.

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Originally posted by Inspector Harry Callahan:
The C&R license entitles one to order only approved weapons (found on the BATF website). General rule of thumb: They must be at least fifty years old, not fully automatic, etc. Check the list to be sure of the specifics.

One word of caution.... Read the application closely. By signing it, you are waiving all of your Fourth Amendment Rights to be secure in your home. The ATF thugs can search your residence at ANY time, without probable cause. If this doesn't bother you, then by all means, get the Curio license.

Callahan
You really should become better informed before you post about topics like this! How about we check the actual facts from the 2000 Firearms regulations. If there is evidence that you are doing something illegal regarding firearms, with or without a C&R, the BATF may well bust down your door. OTOH, if you are like the rest of, the following regulations apply.

*** excerpt from 2000 Firearms Green Book ***

(C) The Secretary may inspect the inventory and records of a licensed collector without such reasonable cause or warrant -

(i) for ensuring compliance with the record keeping requirements of this chapter not more than once during any twelve-month period;
or
(ii) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation.

(D) At the election of a licensed collector, the annual inspection of records and inventory permitted under this paragraph shall be performed at the office of the Secretary designated for such inspections which is located in closest proximity to the premises where the inventory and records of such licensed collector are maintained. The inspection and examination authorized by this paragraph shall not be construed as authorizing the Secretary to seize any records or other documents other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation of law. If the Secretary seizes such records or documents, copies shall be provided the licensee within a reasonable time. The Secretary may make available to any Federal, State, or local law enforcement agency any information which he may obtain by reason of this chapter with respect to the identification of persons prohibited from purchasing or receiving firearms or ammunition who have purchased or received firearms or ammunition, together with a description of such firearms or ammunition, and he may provide information to the extent such information may be contained in the records required to be maintained by this chapter, when so requested by any Federal, State, or local law enforcement agency.


[This message has been edited by johnwill (edited 10-11-2001).]
 

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Hey Johnwill, the very text you posted SUPPORTS my assertion. It does nothing to refute it. If one does not hold one of these C&R licenses, the ATF must swear out a warrant in order to search. In order to get a warrant they need probable cause.

What you just posted supports what I said. Curio holders can be searched WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE, at any time. It is just simply beyond me why ANYONE would want to waive all of their Fourth Amendment rights.

Callahan
 

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Please re-read D again. The licensed collector can elect to have the inspection performed at the local ATF office. ATF "SHALL" comply. I.E. no search of your home. You bring only the documentation and firearms specifically related to your C&R license. Whats the problem? You are asking for a license to buy "collector" guns across state lines and through the mail. Buy a gun on the license, keep the proper records. Don't want the gun to be subject to inspection, don't buy it using the C&R license. Simple.

(D) At the election of a licensed collector, the annual inspection of records and inventory permitted under this paragraph shall be performed at the office of the Secretary
 

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I'll say again, to the folks that were actually curious about the C&R, it's a great deal, and you aren't in any more danger of having the BATF bust down your door with it than without it. If you're really that paranoid, I suggest you keep paying $20-30 for FFL transfers, but it won't make a difference.

I've had my C&R for many years, and the only time I hear from the BATF is to renew it, and their regular newsletters. I've corresponded with a couple of people that had audits, they stated the BATF was very cordial and there were no problems. One mentioned that they made suggestions to improve his recordkeeping, since he wasn't maintaining the required information.
 

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Does anyone have an idea how long it takes to get a C&R FFL approved? I'm filling out the form and just curious how long it will take.
 

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I'm assuming that there's not any point in getting a C&R license if you live in CA (for handguns anyway) since none of the old guns would be on the CA approved hangun list... does anybody know about this?

Ryan
 

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Originally posted by RyanM:
I'm assuming that there's not any point in getting a C&R license if you live in CA (for handguns anyway) since none of the old guns would be on the CA approved hangun list... does anybody know about this?

Ryan
C&R Handguns are exempt and do not have to be on the approved list. However, the only firearms that you can have shipped directly to you are rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. You can still use the license in person when you are out of state and can bring the firearms back to California. (No so called "assault weapons" though.) You wold also be required to register any handguns within 5 days of returning to California.
 

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Thanks, EOD. Just want to make sure I have this right, I'm thinking of getting that license. So I wouldn't be able to get handguns shipped to me from out of state even with the license, but I could go out of state, pick them up, bring them to CA and then legally register them here?

Ryan
 

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I just want to add a C&R does NOT entitle you to DO BUSINESS selling C&R firearms. You may improve your collection ofcourse but don't get carried away selling your C&R acquisistions(sp). It really only allows you to aquire and dispose of C&R firearms in interstate commerce in the course of collecting.
 

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Ryan M,

That's correct. There is a special form for the registration of C&R handguns. I suggest you get some before you do any purchases since you only have 5 days to register the handgun after you return to California. The information (but not the form) is on the Cal DOJ website.
 

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Originally posted by Inspector Harry Callahan:
Hey Johnwill, the very text you posted SUPPORTS my assertion. It does nothing to refute it. If one does not hold one of these C&R licenses, the ATF must swear out a warrant in order to search. In order to get a warrant they need probable cause.

What you just posted supports what I said. Curio holders can be searched WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE, at any time. It is just simply beyond me why ANYONE would want to waive all of their Fourth Amendment rights.

Callahan
Hey Harry,
So can you see taking your inventory into an ATF office or location? The convenience of having the license sounds wonderful. The waiving of your Constitutional right against illegal search and seizure doesn't sound so wonderful. Nothing paranoid about it. How do you feel about waiving our Second Amendment rights along with the Fourth? Not a good plan in my opinion.
Regards,
Sam
 

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I am patiently waiting for the arrival of my Curios and Relics License to arrive in my mail box. I have owned a Powder Springs MAC-10 machine gun since 1986 and I have had zero problems with the ATF. They have never even contacted me to see if I still own my MAC, which I do. I am not concerned about that part of obtaining a CR license, my problem is explaining to my wife about the sudden influx of plain brown packages arriving on our door step and the sudden drop in our bank account.


7th

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Originally posted by 7th Fleet:
I am patiently waiting for the arrival of my Curios and Relics License to arrive in my mail box. I have owned a Powder Springs MAC-10 machine gun since 1986 and I have had zero problems with the ATF. They have never even contacted me to see if I still own my MAC, which I do. I am not concerned about that part of obtaining a CR license, my problem is explaining to my wife about the sudden influx of plain brown packages arriving on our door step and the sudden drop in our bank account.


7th

That could be be even more serious. If Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
Regards,
Sam
 

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Originally posted by SamColtFan:

The convenience of having the license sounds wonderful. The waiving of your Constitutional right against illegal search and seizure doesn't sound so wonderful. Nothing paranoid about it.
If you guys actually think that you're not just as likely to see law enforcement show up someday as folks with a C&R, I guess you should continue to register each and every gun with the government through their existing illegal gun registration process. It's no skin off my nose if you want to keep paying for each transfer.
Personally, I'll keep my C&R and have the convenience and savings of all that it affords.
 
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