[ShakyJake]

Hi,
New to forum. Buggered up title. Hope to purchase a used 1911, hopefully a RIA after the way they treated Unforgiven. After going through all 14 pages I saw no references to the Saf-T-Fast Shooting System kit put out by Cylinder&Slide. Has anyone used it and if so do they feel it is worth the cost. In one write up a LE department purchased 1911's only after they thoroughly checked them with the S-T-H for reliability and felt they added a measure of safety (liability). Appreciate your responses and thanks in advance.
TaKe CaRe,
Ted

 

[mobocracy]

Hi,
New to forum. Buggered up title. Hope to purchase a used 1911, hopefully a RIA after the way they treated Unforgiven. After going through all 14 pages I saw no references to the Saf-T-Fast Shooting System kit put out by Cylinder&Slide. Has anyone used it and if so do they feel it is worth the cost. In one write up a LE department purchased 1911's only after they thoroughly checked them with the S-T-H for reliability and felt they added a measure of safety (liability). Appreciate your responses and thanks in advance.
TaKe CaRe,
Ted

There was a 1911 enhanced safety system reviewed/described in a 2005 issue of American Handgunner, although I can't remember if it was this one or not -- but how many aftermarket 1911 safety systems can there be?

From what I remember reading in A.H., the one they described allowed you to simply push the hammer forward to decock the gun -- with no risk of AD as you might have manually lowering the hammer on a full chamber. Firing was a matter of cocking the hammer back and pulling the trigger (I think, this is all from memory).

The C&S web site isn't terribly descriptive of how it actually works, and the picture links of the instructions pull up just the parts diagram, not the instructions. I lost that issue of the magazine (went looking for not that long ago) that described its operation.

Do you know exactly how it operates? I get a ton of crap for saying this, but I've always thought that it would be clever if there was a safe way to half-cock a 1911. But then again, I also think the Cominolli safety for Glocks is a clever idea as well, and I carry a Glock.

 

[ShakyJake]

Saf-t-fast

Hi, Mobocracy
Thanks for the response I have read a few of the articles about the system and how it is suppose to work. With the gun cocked the hammer is pushed forward and the safety is automatically set. It is still in condit. 1 technic. but the hammer is down but not on the firing pin. When ready to use sweep the safety, the hammer cocks and is ready to fire. Never seen one or talked to anyone who has one. Also avail for Hi-powers. Kinda same idea as the safety on the Glock I guess. Was just wondering if there is first hand experience with it. Thanks again for the come back.
TaKe CaRe
Ted

 

[usp_fan]

I've fired a 1911 with this system in it. I couldn't tell the difference in trigger feel from a standard fire control group. IIRC you can also lower the hammer by putting the safety lever on. As you said, taking it off returns the hammer to full cock.

This system uses a hammer within a hammer system to allow the outer hammer to cock/decock--but the inner hammer always remains cocked. There is no second strike capablity, and I really don't see what is safer with this system as you still have a hammer under tension (perhaps the mass is too small to ignite a primer if the inner hammer falls while the outer is at rest).

I had thought about building up a pistol with this system in it for my wife as she isn't comfortable with Condition 1 carry.

--usp_fan

 

[mobocracy]

Thanks for the clarification -- I knew it was slicker/easier (ie, cock-decock w/safety) than I remembered.

I'd guess that the with the system on there must be something preventing the gun from being firable besides just "looking" unfirable because the hammer is down, otherwise why bother?

 

[Tim Burke]

It's all cosmetic, it adds nothing to the safety of the gun. With both systems- if the gun has safety on, it isn't going to go off, even if you pull the trigger. If it has the safety off, it will have a light single action trigger pull. No functional difference.

 

[mobocracy]

It's all cosmetic, it adds nothing to the safety of the gun. With both systems- if the gun has safety on, it isn't going to go off, even if you pull the trigger. If it has the safety off, it will have a light single action trigger pull. No functional difference.

I know the basics of 1911 safeties; you can't pull the trigger without engaging the grip safety, and with the

On a condition 1 1911 with the thumb safety on, is there anything internally that could fail and allow the hammer to fall and produce a discharge, or does the thumb safety actually disengage something internally other than preventing trigger pull? Does the grip safety or the firing pin lockout play into this?

I'm asking because I really don't know, I'm not being argumentative.

I'd love to see a video/animation of the 1911 safety internals system explained and how it all "works." I'll admit to finding something about 1911 condition 1 carry spooky, but it's ignorance because I haven't seen it explained. It just *seems* like some internal gizmo could break, hammer falls, and then I'm explaining to somebody why my gun went boom.

 

[ordie1]

It is the Safe Fast Shooting System, I haven't tried one on a 1911 yet but have one on a BHP I really like it and will probably install one on my 1911 carry weapon, mainly because I'm a leftey and need the ambi safety which has given me problems with wiping the safety off while carrying. I have had no problems with the one on my BHP and it gives me one less worry while carrying in condition 1

 

[crucible]

With respect to the moderator, it actually can add to the safety of (series 70) weapons by adding the well-designed firing pin safety that the SFS incorporates. One can argue the merits of FPS's in thier entirety as another issue of course, but there is a reason why they've been added to many manufacturers line-ups in their various incarnations....and lawyer-induced isn't all of them IMO.

Additionally, I (a relative layman) beleive the SFS can help guard against the admittedly very rare issue of sear failure as well, and can add some practical benefits as well (I did a fairly long review of it here http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=100323&highlight=SFS Since that review, I did remove the ambi-portion of the thumb safety as it's the only cheesy part of the system, as well as not using the supplied extended slide release as despite it's functioning okay, it's a bit undersize.)

That said, I still have two other non-SFS 1911's (one 70 series and one 80) that I routinely carry as well, and don't feel 'unsafe' with them in doing so. The SFS-equipped one does add some extra safety margin in both operation and CCW handling for me though...and that's not a bad thing. And fwiw, it's neat too

Chris

 

[Tim Burke]

If you think a 1911 needs a firing pin safety, then perhaps this is an advantage... if you don't have a Series 80 or a Series II. Sear failure is not something I've been losing sleep over.
Sheep are scared by cocked pistols... the SFS keeps you from scaring the livestock.

 

[tgb]

i have used one as a Demo from a gunsmith friend. It is a pretty slick and safe safety feature. i was going to put one on my new SA loaded, but I was told that it would void my warranty, why i don't know. I do think they would be worth the money. He said they are very easy to install. It is a matter of replacing parts.

 

[rohlott]

Bought the SFS as soon as I saw one and installed it on my Kimber CDP II. Did not like the extended slide release, so I didn't use it.

Two big pluses.........
1. Hammer down also engages a hammer block. Redundant, but one extra layer of safety.
2. I can descretely brush the gun when carrying conceiled to verify the safety.

Negatives........
1. plastic off side thumb safety lever
2. Off side lever is retained by a very small, very loosable pin. So much for the 1911 being it's own toolbox.

Overall I like it very much. Planning on evaluating further before converting the Officers and Para.

 

[Tim Burke]

I can descretely brush the gun when carrying conceiled to verify the safety.

I have never had a problem with the safety being brushed off while in the holster. I know this is a theoretical concern, but I don't know if it happens often enough to be a real issue. I find the more I carry the gun, the less I need to check its condition; I just check it when I have to handle it administratively.

 

[rohlott]

I guess my problem is the mode of carry and the weak side thumb safety lever which can and has been brushed off. The G-Code paddle holster that I primarily carry with covers and protects the strong side safety lever, but that still leaves the weak side open to the occasional bump. This can and has happened a few times over the 30 years I've been carrying.

I'm considering either bobbing the lever to a near stock length, or maybe better yet, getting rid of it altogether by simply grinding off the small tenon that it mounts on. That will take care of that itty bitty pin.

I'll grant you that with all the redundancy of safeties in the series 80's and the Kimbers you only loose one level, but I'm personally more comfortable with all of them in play.

 

[Tim Burke]

I forgot to mention that most of my 1911s have standard safeties. I can see how ambi's might get brushed off more frequently.

 

[crucible]

Rohlott, grinding off the tenon as you said works just fine (will give a flat end of the pin instead of a rounded end pointing out of the frame), and was in fact suggested to me by C&S after inquiring about a standard safety. This piece was my first introduction into ambi safeties, and found that it indeed get bumped off on more than a few occasions, so off it came.

The ability to quickly and covertly check the entire safety condition of the weapon by just brushing against the hammer is one of the best undocumented features. On the SFS, if the hammer is down, it's automatically known the safety is engaged and the weapon locked and safe, where as on a normally-equipped 1911, the same quick check just says the hammer is cocked and nothing about the thumb safety's position. Both are of course very safe regardless (they are 1911's), but it's a very nice feature.

C-

 

[RMF]

Sounds to me like a solution looking for a problem.

 

[TiroFijo]

"Sounds to me like a solution looking for a problem."

A big, resounding, DITTO!!

 

[TRB]

Actually, the SFS is a problem looking for a disaster to cause.

I don't know how one can believe it incorporates a firing pin safety by simply dropping in a hammer. It's not physically possible, and it does no such thing.

It turns the 1911 hammer from one part into a clockwork nightmare of tiny springs.

It renders the thumb safety useless, as once it's taken off the only way to reapply it is to "lower" the hammer.

It does not guard in any way against sear failure that the 1911 doesn't anyway. The 1911 has a hammer block in condition one... it's called the thumb safety.

The SFS is like Para's LDA done half-ass. It pretty much does the same thing... cosmetically lowers the hammer while leaving the internal mechanism cocked... without going through the trouble of simulating trigger cocking.

 

[rohlott]

Sorry boys......... Didn't mean to get anyone's blood up.