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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103454,00.html

I said it before, and I'll say it again: You can NOT be pro-2nd Amendment and pro-Democrat. Any of you out there who think you can, I'd really love to hear your line of reasoning. I'll say this again too: Any lefties posting to this thread WILL keep it on topic, as this will not turn into a Bush/conservative bashing thread.

The issue is "How do you justify voting for these idiots, if you, in fact, really do believe in the concept of the 2nd amendment?"

Fire away...
 

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People like Paladin say there are other things they care about more than guns. Then when you ask him what those things are he refuses to talk about it.
 

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Mus said:
People like Paladin say there are other things they care about more than guns. Then when you ask him what those things are he refuses to talk about it.
I can be frank about it - as there are things I care about more than guns, too.

The biggest issue, BY FAR, for most people on this forum, in the USA, on Earth, is redistribution of wealth and control over economic decisions of others.

Take the war in Kosovo. No threat to the US? Didn't do anything to us? I won't argue the war in Kosovo here or now; but the anti-war voices we hear now, with their arguments, were simply not present. This is not to say that these were the sole reasons why people opposed the war in Iraq; but the reason the "big guns" of war protest remained silent.

IMHO Klint would have invaded IRAQ, and he would have had the full support of the Europeons, as the Europeons do not wish to embarass a (fellow) socialist leader.


Look on the NRA's website, the union positions on gun control. I'm sure the union would rather not talk about gun control, they probably don't give a s**t. But they get involved in it to help the candidates that are biased toward their ECONOMIC standpoint.


This is where we get what is called "left" and "right" - true, maybe there's some correlation that caused guns to go into the "capitalistic" camp. People go toward the camp that's closest to what they want and rationalize the rest. I'm probably guilty of this myself, putting up with some idiocy from "the right" without complaint because if they win I'll get most of what I want.

Socialists often talk of "freedom" wrt. surveillance powers that cops have and such - but you'll notice again they only complain of this during the more capitalistic administrations. The toilet flush limits, or a punitive tax on gasoline, or your tax rate, has more effect on your day to day of living your life than war, guns, terrorism, police surveillance, etc.


Battler.
 

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just as guns tends to be a defining topic for conservatives, abortion tends to be the defining topic for liberals.. you might like guns, but if you are pro-killing unborn babies, you are undoubtedly a democrat

Abortion takes precedence over Guns

it's ironic that democrats use the term 'freedom' to define killing unborn (and defenseless) humans.. but want to deny freedom to anyone who wants to defend himself with a gun.. and they use the line "it's for the children"

but such is the complete hypocrisy that democrats live with
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I can be frank about it - as there are things I care about more than guns, too. The biggest issue, BY FAR, for most people on this forum, in the USA, on Earth, is redistribution of wealth and control over economic decisions of others.

They are tied together though: The grabbers know they can't fully implement their soci-communist agenda while people are still able to provide the ultimate "check" against a tyrannical govt.
 

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Joe,

That reminded me of a good quote:

"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born."
Ronald Reagan
 

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Forstr said:
They are tied together though: The grabbers know they can't fully implement their soci-communist agenda while people are still able to provide the ultimate "check" against a tyrannical govt.
Our guns aren't protecting us from squat from government. So when are you going red dawn? What indignity, what economic repression, would make you take up arms against the state? IMHO, that which stops us working as (more direct) slave labor in barracks is more time and people's (present) indignation with such things, not your guns.

They are useful for self defense from random criminals.

Why do dems bash on guns?

Stupidity
Self-defense that ends in a death robs them of a voter.
"Class" warfare - i.e. that it's a way to smack people on the other side of the wealth redistribution argument.


I read a cool british article written by a socialist on the latest hunting bans. She was pointing out hypocricy on both sides, that of hunters saying they care about "conservation" where they really want to have fun killing animals, and about the "left"'s hypocricy saying they care about animals/foxes when it's really that they want to hurt landowners who they really don't like.
 

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Battler said:
Our guns aren't protecting us from squat from government. So when are you going red dawn? What indignity, what economic repression, would make you take up arms against the state?
Probably less than what they are going to apply while we still have our guns. And thats quite the rub isnt it?
 
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