Do you find CC laws too restictive and do you follow them?

2270 Views 28 Replies 21 Participants Last post by Kavall, Aug 22, 2001

pinetree

Discussion Starter · Jul 3, 2001

I'm heading to a Braves game tonight, taking mass transit. By law I can not carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. I was thinking, if I had a Keltec32, it would be in my pocket for this night's game. I have had a couple instances at Turner Field where I drove and having a gun handy really made me feel more secure.

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at

· #2 · Jul 3, 2001

Yes and yes. In particular, the law against carrying in any restaurant that serves alcohol makes no sense at all. Second would be the prohibition against carrying in a post office. (Has there ever been a documented case in which a CCW holder used his firearm in an unlawful manner?) Nevertheless, I follow the laws to the letter.

Bronco

· #3 · Jul 3, 2001

I agree with AT on this....I do think there are too many restrictions on places to carry.

That said...I am very carefull about following the laws on CCW....I would rather comply with the limitations on my carry than to lose my rights compleatly.

edit: it stinks...but I do want to keep my permit.

[This message has been edited by Bronco (edited 07-27-2001).]

RikWriter

· #4 · Jul 3, 2001

Yes and...sometimes. Depends on the place and the circumstances.

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A man with a watch knows what time it is; a man with two watches isn't so sure

airborne420

· #5 · Jul 4, 2001

Better 12 then 6 if you know what I mean.

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Have you hugged your 1911 today?

Citizen_Gilmore

· #6 · Jul 4, 2001

Yes it is too restrictive.. The only times i have carried in a prohibited area was by accedent.. It is very frustrating, they have all the info they needed and we passed there required tests and checks, we should have access anywhere.. I think anyplace that is restricted should have to have a red door on it or something, that signifies no carry.. It is a real pain not knowing in certain places, when your out running arends, or whatever.. -Gilmore

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ME,WE!

pinetree

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 4, 2001

In a followup to my question. I should add that I rarely carry. I just haven't felt comfortable with it. I feel like I'm wearing a neon sign - "HE'S GOT A GUN". I do like being able to transport and conceal guns in my vehicle and I'd like to carry more. I only really carried when I lived in down town Chicago - all hand guns are illegal. I didn't own a car and if I had to go out late at night I'd slip taurus in my coat pocket or in my waist band. I don't want to be a law breaker and don't want to hurt our right to carry. I just think that soemtimes one might be justified in doing so.

msmith

· #8 · Jul 4, 2001

In WV the laws aren't too restrictive. The game laws will bite you though if you aren't careful. Like haveing a loaded gun in the vehicle after 5:00 pm, etc.

[This message has been edited by msmith (edited 07-04-2001).]

Kevin-64

· #9 · Jul 4, 2001

If your in a situation where you really need to use it, you wont worry about the law to much.

GRPfan

· #10 · Jul 4, 2001

Yes, and regretfully, no. I know violent crime is on the decrease, especially in the states which allow CC. But there are still shootings and knifings occasionally in any neighborhood. . .good neighborhoods just have a lower incidence of these crimes, but they are certainly not "safe". Safer, maybe, but not safe. I end up feeling irresponsible if I'm NOT carrying. The stats on the good behavior of CC permit holders from John Lott et al combined with the crime rate make me feel it is my civic DUTY to carry. There was a great piece by the late Finn Agaard on this topic I'm sure many of you have seen.

The "clincher" for me, however was the following coincidence. A colleague of mine and I were going to see a client who lives on Long Island a few years back. We were going to take the LIRR. She called at the last minute and asked us to meet her at her son's business in Connecticut instead, so we took the AMTRAK to Stamford that day.

Well, you guessed it. That was the very day Colin Ferguson did his shooting rampage on the LIRR. How many did he kill? Five or six? My colleague and I were stunned when we realized it next day. Now, I don't know if we would have been going the same direction or if we'd have been on the same train. . .but just the thought at being on that line that day, the nightmare scenario of witnessing a shooting rampage like that all the while thinking about your carry piece locked at home in the safe, was enough to make me become a lawbreaker.

It pains me to say this, as a former military officer and general stand-up law abiding guy. But the hell with it. I'm packin. . .everywhere, period. NYC, Washington D.C, all the places with the worst gun restrictions are the ones where you need one the most. I carry a ton of life insurance, but I'd rather not have my family rely on it becuase I got popped by some cranked up thug on some big city subway somewhere. I pay my life insurance premiums on time and I carry life insurance on my hip. I know once you start picking and choosing the laws you want to follow that's a slippery slope. This is definitely a problematic issue. I don't LIKE the idea that I'm breaking the law, I hate it. But I rationalize it in my mind by realizing that it is not only a bad law, but one which restricts one of our most fundamental of rights, self defense, and that of our family. These are bad laws, people, and we ought to work to repeal them. I don't need some Harvard educated lawyer on the Supreme Court to interpret the constitution for me. I'm pretty well educated and English is not my second language, and I'm well read on the framers intent. I'm not wrong the Harvard law types are. So don't feel guilty if you disobey these laws. I respect those who choose to follow them, but I don't feel guilty if I disobey them.

In my story, I was not on that train. How about that Texas Congresswoman (her name escapes me at the moment) who watched both her parents shot by a madman in a McDonalds in Texas a few years ago? I believe she had a gun in the car, if I remember correctly. Don't drink and drive, don't do drugs, don't evade your taxes, don't litter, for crying out loud. But carry your gun. Please. It's the right thing to do.

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Brucelee3r

· #11 · Jul 4, 2001

I personally find the CCW laws too restrictive. If you are doing your part in concealing your firearm, you shouldn't have too many problems carrying in most places, except courthouses and airports of course. However, you must keep in mind your priorities...
#1 Stay Alive !!!
#2 Stay out of jail
#3 Stay out of the poorhouse.

You don't have to worry about 2 & 3 if you don't take care of #1. If you can make it to court, you can try to convince the jury. If you can stay out of jail, you can earn more $ to pay the legal bills. In worst case scenarios, being poor is better than being in jail, and being in jail is better than being six feet under.

Soooo... just try and keep it a secret.

Steve333

· #12 · Jul 5, 2001

Pennsylvania has very liberal CCW laws so it's not normally an issue for me or the wife. When we visit extended family in Ohio (Youngstown ain't exactly the cultural center of the universe) it becomes an issue since Ohio has no CCW. In that case I take a weapon and cell phone as usual but modify how I carry to minimize risk. In other words, I obey the CCW law in PA because it's so very easy to do so. Where the law prohibits CCW, I do it anyway. Years ago I got the privilege of staring down the wrong end of a gun barrel and I was unarmed. It won't happen again.

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Steve

BillD

· #13 · Jul 6, 2001

Went to the fireworks last night at the local university intramural fields. I carried although it was on school grounds. 50,000 people show up and I am responsible for myself, daughter, wife and 2 grandkids. I know it is the 4th of July but that is what it is all about.

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"What most of these people need is a good slap upside the head. What I don't need is any more lawsuits." John "The Tooz" Matusak

Steve333

· #14 · Jul 6, 2001

Exactly. As you state, I'm responsible for the safety of my wife. These days, you don't know who you're gonna run into out in public or in your home for that matter. I choose to be prepared rather than lucky.

Originally posted by BillD:
I am responsible for myself, daughter, wife and 2 grandkids. I know it is the 4th of July but that is what it is all about.
[/B]

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Steve

173abn

· #15 · Jul 26, 2001

I agree meith Mr. Collins. My FIRST responsibility is to my family and that means protecting them and myself. The operative word here is "CONCEALED!" If you don't attract attention to yourself and just go about your business, and keep your gun CONCEALED, you should go anywhere you want. I refuse to let the communists ( lets not give them the dignity of calling them liberals because thats not what they are,,they are communists and socialists) dictate to me as to whether I can defend my life against the criminals they put on the street. Conceal and Defend!!

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173abn

· #16 · Jul 26, 2001

I agree WITH Mr. Collins,,,

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bucksnuffer

· #17 · Jul 27, 2001

I think if you get the permit, you should be good to go anywhere, and I mean ANYWHERE. That check if i'm correct, covers every state does it not? If you are given the go, isn't it saying "Hey, this guy obeys the law and he can be trusted" These you can't go here, can't go there laws are B.S. Airports and courtrooms I can deal with, but thats it!!! If a department governed by these United States say I can carry, damn it, I should be able to carry anywhere in the U.S!!!!!!!!!Alrighty then

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Lupey

· #18 · Jul 27, 2001

New Hampshire

TITLE 12 § 159:19 Courtroom Security. - I. No person shall knowingly carry a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver, or firearm or anyother deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V, whether open or concealed or whether licensed or unlicensed, upon his personor within any of his possessions owned or within his control in a courtroom or area used by a court.

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By the time they come for your guns I will be to dead to care

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Mall Ninja

· #19 · Jul 27, 2001

It's a sticky wicket, and I don't usually break the "prohibited places" rule, but sometimes it's just necessary. I generally agree with Mr. Collins.

I switch to either "deep cover" or "hide in plain sight" mode for these occasions. Uncle Mike's makes their GunMate belt pouch which will hide a J-frame or the like very nicely, and does not look like a gun fanny pack. I'm gonna sew a sports logo on it. It's not the fastest rig but...

Ken Null (www.klnull.com) makes a shoulder rig for the J-frame called the City Slicker, which is fantastic. Very fast, and conceals an Airweight almost invisibly under even a (dark) t-shirt, and certainly a sport/dress shirt. You could velcro the pectoral-height button for quick access to the holster.

Two options for deep concealment. I'll pass on the Thunderwear!

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Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? (Who Shall Guard the Guards?)

The person formerly known as Covert Mission.

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Mute

· #20 · Jul 27, 2001

I live in KA. I think that would answer your question. Anymore and I'd have exercise my 5th Amendment rights.

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