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Empty-chamber carry is like thumb-cocking your revolver with the off hand; how do you know you'll have both hands available?
The Israelis adopted empty chamber carry for consistency in training; they have so many different guns, with different action types, and so many people of varying experience and skill level carrying, that draw-rack-shoot was adopted as standard for all auto pistols. In that context, it's not a bad plan.
Wouldn't be my choice, but a few minutes of practice at the Israeli approach got my 1st shot down to some small fraction of a second longer than from C1.

You nail it on the one-hand operation aspect: operating the slide one-handed is slower* and also at best it's riskier. That even knowing how to do it and planning for it being needed (e.g. wounded, slide-lock, active threats) AND more than a few minutes of practice.

*- slower because it takes attention to avoid violating rule #1 ... maybe I'd be faster at it while under active threat.
#8-O
 

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The chances of needing your gun on any given day are extremely slim.... but if you do need it, the chances of needing it immediately are extremely high!!

I have never met anyone that says "yes, and the Israeli's do it" that actually trains like the Israeli's do. I've seen videos and seen people in person try to draw and rack on the fly to demo how fast they are and they always need another try or two... which proves to me that it won't work under real stress or attack without a lot of training and dedicated practice. Not saying it can't be done, but most people carrying that way because it's "safer" probably need more training.
 

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Have you ever ravked your slide and had it fail to go into battery? Now imagine that you needed to defend yourself at that moment. Why chance it???


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Here is a good article from Armory Life with data to back it up about not carrying one in the chamber.
https://www.thearmorylife.com/is-an...Z62Q&utm_content=95971398&utm_source=hs_email

In the article is one of the best explanations for the rational behind "Israeli Carry".

"Remember that “Israeli Carry” reference? You might wonder, why did the hardened warriors of Israel go to empty chamber carry? Simply because in 1949 they had a low training budget, and had to work with a mishmash of whatever handguns they could get. The safeties of the American 1911 and the Belgian Browning worked opposite from those on the German Walther and all were different from the German Luger, and none of those guns at that time were drop-safe with a round in the chamber. It was the safest way to go. You, as an armed citizen or an armed professional with one issued firearm, don’t have those problems … and hopefully, you have a drop-safe gun. In that situation, you don’t need the empty chamber that will slow you down."
 

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Here is a good article from Armory Life with data to back it up about not carrying one in the chamber.
...
That is a good article: thanks for posting.
 

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Good read, I agree fractions of a second matter in a gun fight.
 

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One of my colleagues at work who is NOT new to EDC (or guns in general) really surprised me that he doesn't keep a round in the chamber on his carry weapon (G19) because he doesn't want to risk a negligent discharge. I have heard some people that don't like to keep "one in the pipe" in their home defense weapon (be it a pistol, rifle or shotgun), but I had never heard anybody say they did not keep a loaded chamber on their carry weapon. I asked him why he wouldn't want to give himself every advantage when seconds count, but he claimed he could draw and rack the slide quickly enough that the time difference was negligible.

Got me wondering if anyone else here subscribed to that philosophy, or didnt feel completely safe keeping a round in the chamber on their EDC.
Just watch a couple of videos about this subject where an assailant approaches a victim. The time required to rack the slide would very likely be the difference getting a shot off and being assaulted where you couldn’t react.
A good holster for a 1911 with an ambi safety should cover the off side safety lever. With a Glock type striker fired pistol, think of it like a DA revolver.
No excuse for an empty tube.
 

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I think it is a bad idea. That said, I would rather someone have a gun on them with an empty chamber than no gun at all. There was a story from a few years ago about a woman who kept her handgun in her purse. While shopping, her toddler reached into her bag and fired the gun, killing the mother. (found it: Idaho woman accidentally shot and killed by 2-year-old in Walmart) There are so many takeaways from this: off body carry is not advisable, the gun should have been in a secure-fitting holster, she should have been aware the gun was in the reach of her toddler, etc. One solution for her would have been empty chamber carry. If you have a handsy toddler, and can't/won't consider alternative carry methods, a condition 4 handgun is still better to have than nothing.
 

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One of my colleagues at work who is NOT new to EDC (or guns in general) really surprised me that he doesn't keep a round in the chamber on his carry weapon (G19) because he doesn't want to risk a negligent discharge. I have heard some people that don't like to keep "one in the pipe" in their home defense weapon (be it a pistol, rifle or shotgun), but I had never heard anybody say they did not keep a loaded chamber on their carry weapon. I asked him why he wouldn't want to give himself every advantage when seconds count, but he claimed he could draw and rack the slide quickly enough that the time difference was negligible.

Got me wondering if anyone else here subscribed to that philosophy, or didnt feel completely safe keeping a round in the chamber on their EDC.
As “Bill Jordan” says in his book “ No Second Place Winner” “If you and I go into an alley. We both draw and you misfire, jam or have to rack the slide. And I misfire on my wheel gun. I’m coming out alive.” You can’t rack as fast as a second shot from a wheel gun. I agree, you need every second with an auto.
 

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Carry a gun to defend myself that is not ready for defending myself?
 
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When I first started carrying I carried w/o one in the pipe. Springfield Range Officer Elite Compact.
What I found when I'd take the gun from the holster was that the safety was frequently off. This made me unsure about the safety of the weapon.
What I eventually determined was that the ambi safety was catching on the seatbelt in the truck and getting switched off.
I had planned to change out the safety on the Springfield for a non-ambi one.
Then I picked up a Dan Wesson ECO that is not ambi. Started carrying it instead of the Springfield and never found the safety off, so now I carry it w/ one in the pipe.
597137


I think it all depends on your comfort level with the weapon. If you are new to carrying, then by all means do so at your comfort level. Train a lot, you'll get more comfortable with it.

I'm not a fan of guns like Glocks and the like that have no safety.

Even with the safety, when I'm holstering the weapon I do so with my thumb between the hammer and firing pin and I always stop and LOOK at the pistol prior, to ensure it's in the safe condition.
 

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My carry 1911s have no ambi safety, to eliminate what you described.
 

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Here you go. Store owner AND son killed because he could not rack the slide

 

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They say never point a loaded gun at something you don’t want to destroy. So if I’m carrying appendix, it’s gotta be a hammer fired gun with the hammer down. So I prefer DA/SA, especially considering your body position when seated.
 

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Sample of one follows: I used a DA revolver for self defense. I had to be subtle and stealthy till it was game on. The opportunity for the use of a second hand to deploy it was very limited and it would have been a dangerous disadvantage. A SA revolver would have been less disadvantages than having to use both hands to deploy the weapon.
Why do very, very few people use SA revolvers for SD? Because they are largely archaic and DA offers superior tactical options.
Why the hell would anyone carry a pistol with an empty chamber other than ignorance and/or fear??? You may be better off with a SA revolver for the first critical shot. Fractions of seconds can mean life or death.
Think about it, sound tactics are smarter than feeling lucky.
 

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Discussion Starter #79
Here is a good article from Armory Life with data to back it up about not carrying one in the chamber.
https://www.thearmorylife.com/is-an...Z62Q&utm_content=95971398&utm_source=hs_email

In the article is one of the best explanations for the rational behind "Israeli Carry".

"Remember that “Israeli Carry” reference? You might wonder, why did the hardened warriors of Israel go to empty chamber carry? Simply because in 1949 they had a low training budget, and had to work with a mishmash of whatever handguns they could get. The safeties of the American 1911 and the Belgian Browning worked opposite from those on the German Walther and all were different from the German Luger, and none of those guns at that time were drop-safe with a round in the chamber. It was the safest way to go. You, as an armed citizen or an armed professional with one issued firearm, don’t have those problems … and hopefully, you have a drop-safe gun. In that situation, you don’t need the empty chamber that will slow you down."
Thanks, GTTom...I'm gonna bookmark that webpage. Great replies by all. You've given me some fantastic arguing points. I doubt anything I say would change my co-workers mind, but at least I'll have some great information and viewpoints to retort with if this topic comes up again.
 

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Here you go. Store owner AND son killed because he could not rack the slide
IME examples are rationalized as inapplicable by those content with what they are doing.
Somebody content with empty chamber carry will rationalize, "I'm not a store owner" - it doesn't apply.

Same for somebody content to carry a 38snub/pocket 380 in a "good" area.
Post video of man shot by police and not incapacitated by 5-6 hits, "I'm not a cop" - so its inapplicable.
 
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