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and found this article on the battle for CCW in Wisconsin:
Packing heat
By Neil Rhines
Herald Times Reporter

MANITOWOC —You might not realize it, but the man or woman sitting across from you in your favorite restaurant may have a handgun tucked underneath his or her jacket.

Is this a cause for concern? Or will the threat of a potential victim legally carrying a concealed firearm be enough to deter a criminal from committing an act of violence?

Ultimately, whether or not the Personal Protection Act (Senate Bill 214) presently coasting through the Republican-controlled Legislature passes — as most analysts predict it could — the question that begs to be answered is whether or not allowing men and women to “strap” will make Wisconsin a safer place.

On Sept. 23, 1998, Manitowoc Police officer Dale Ten Haken was shot and killed with a concealed weapon.

Regardless, Manitowoc Police Chief Perry Kingsbury said has no quarrel with a trained, law-abiding citizen who chooses to legally carry a handgun for protection, though he himself does not carry one off duty.

“Even though this department lost an officer to a concealed weapon, I believe people have a perfectly legal right to have one,” Kingsbury said. “If the bad guys are carrying a gun concealed, why can’t the good guys?”

As to the question of safety, Kingsbury said he has great concerns should a citizen feel they are receiving inadequate protection from the police.

But, response time is an issue, he said.

“In the three to four minutes it could take for the police to get there, it could be longer than that person could have,” Kingsbury said.

Concerning the general opinion of the law enforcement community, however, Kingsbury stands in the minority.

Randy Ammerman, chief of the Two Rivers Police Department, said he agrees with the Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association’s stance against concealed carry.

Coincidentally, the Wisconsin chiefs declared their formal opposition on Sept. 23, the fifth anniversary of Ten Haken’s death.

According to Ammerman, in the 30 years he has served the city of Two Rivers, he has never seen a case where someone absolutely needed to defend him or herself with a gun, and doesn’t believe the best choice is to overturn the 130 year-old ban.

“There are a couple of things that cause me a lot of concern on this,” Ammerman said, including the availability of weapons in “the heat of the moment,” and what he sees as the inevitable change in law enforcement tactics should the bill pass.

“It will no longer be acceptable to assume an aggressive individual is unarmed, we’re going to have to be more focused on the preservation of the officer,” he said. “As soon as I’m standing there with my hands in my pockets, what are you going to think?”

Ammerman said he is resigned to the bill’s passage, although he doesn’t see much good coming from a bill with a “check your guns at the door” clause.

Also, he remains frustrated by many provisions in a bill that he believes will further separate the law enforcement community from citizens, and of the hidden costs should the bill pass.

The Department of Justice predicts counties would spend an estimated $32,000 to purchase the necessary equipment to handle concealed carry applications and licensing. Background checks would take at least an hour to complete.

Another of Ammerman’s concerns is that, “guns are hard to conceal, they tend to frighten people when they see them.”

Ammerman said he is worried those carrying could use the presence of a firearm as an intimidation factor.

So does Keely Crowley, community outreach advocate at the Domestic Violence Center in Manitowoc.

“I don’t feel that putting more guns out in our community is going to make us safer,” Crowley said. “My major concern is, there are a lot of victims that aren’t going to feel comfortable with a gun, but their abuser might have a gun, so ‘I have to have a gun.’ You just put firearms in two more households.”

According to Crowley, domestic abuse situations typically involve one individual exerting dominance over another, usually using fear of verbal or physical violence as a means to achieve their goal. Crowley is concerned that even if the gun isn’t used to shoot the partner, the presence of the firearm could be enough to intimidate the victim.

Patrick Blashka, president of the Manitowoc County Fish and Game Protective Association, said he, too, believes legalizing concealed carry will intimidate people, but in a far different way than Crowley contends.

“Yes, the criminals are out there, but if they know the individual is carrying a concealed weapon, they’ll be less likely to attack,” Blashka said.

There are some areas Blashka would prefer guns to stay out of, such as churches, taverns and public buildings. He knows there is controversy in anything new or different, but, ultimately, he doesn’t believe people need be too concerned, because not too many people will go through the legal steps to carry.

“I doubt whether people will rush out to get a license to carry a firearm, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, it’s a good thing for criminals to know (someone might be carrying),” he said.


What I question is Chief Ammermans statements. First after doing a quick search I found these:
Crime in Two Rivers (2001):
· 0 murders (0.0 per 100,000)
· 3 rapes (23.7 per 100,000)
· 1 robbery (7.9 per 100,000)
· 10 assaults (79.1 per 100,000)
· 24 burglaries (189.9 per 100,000)
· 261 larceny counts (2065.0 per 100,000)
· 4 auto thefts (31.6 per 100,000)
· City-data.com crime index = 126.1 (higher means more crime, US average = 330.6)
http://www.city-data.com/city/Two-Rivers-Wisconsin.html

So I guess those 3 rape victims were not worthy of defending themselves?

How about these 22 victims:
Police find man's catalog of sexual assaults
BY ROB YOUNG
Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers

MANITOWOC - Alleged roving sexual predator Andrew S. Gove kept careful records after assaulting young girls, authorities said Tuesday at a news conference.
Twenty-two victims have been found so far, according to the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department.
http://www.wisinfo.com/journal/spjlocal/297169530352706.shtml

Also this chief trains his officers like this
It will no longer be acceptable to assume an aggressive individual is unarmed, we’re going to have to be more focused on the preservation of the officer,” he said. “As soon as I’m standing there with my hands in my pockets, what are you going to think?”


Sorry I'm just ranting and raving :D
 

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Sounds like the same article I read about
Missouri
Minnesota
Michigan
Ohio
etc...

Same old arguments with no facts. And such lazy reporting.
 

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this is typical of most of Wisconsin towns... low violent crime rate... and police who feel they should have an elevated status above a normal citizen

what really burns me, tho.. is when those articles mention someone who was killed with a concealed weapon.. since concealed weapons have been banned it our state, the article should the article is purposely trying to bias the reader against concealed weapons used for protection by not making the distinction between weapons used for offensive versus defensive measures.. essentially labelling all gun owners as criminals-to-be
 

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“It will no longer be acceptable to assume an aggressive individual is unarmed, we’re going to have to be more focused on the preservation of the officer,” he said.
IT ISNT ACCEPTABLE TO ASSUME THAT NOW YOU FOOL!

I cant truly speak my mind on this issue because of the forums profanity rules.

“I don’t feel that putting more guns out in our community is going to make us safer,” Crowley said. “My major concern is, there are a lot of victims that aren’t going to feel comfortable with a gun, but their abuser might have a gun, so ‘I have to have a gun.’ You just put firearms in two more households.”
WRONG! LEARN TO COUNT!

You havent put firearms in any more households with a concealed carry law first of all. Second, all you have done is allowed the ONE (1) person out of the two who respects the law (the victim not the assailant) to carry a concealed firearm when they leave their home. That way they can defend themselves against any attacks from the abuser. The law breaking abuser is going to break the law anyway.

Maybe it would be better if the abused person was forced to hide in their house, or just go about life like nothing has happened and hope for the best?

MORONS!!!

:grumble:
 
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