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Discussion Starter #1
I am just interested in why so many people would want a double action 1911 styl gun I think single action shoots alot nicer and I feel they are safe and have no problem carrying cocked n locked, how does everyone else feel?
 

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A lot of LEO's still like the 1911 platform. Unfortunately, most departments prohibit single action guns. A DAO 1911 gives them the option to still carry their favourite gun.

Also, some people are still unsure about carrying cocked and locked. While there is nothing unsafe about this method, some still prefer an alternative carry mode.
 

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Well, the brass of most Police Departments don't realize that safe gun handling comes from what's between an officers' ears, not how much his trigger pull weight is. Regardless, the common consensus among the brass, the general population, and of course, the lawyers - is that a single action trigger is MUCH TOO LIGHT, and we'd have a dramatic increase in the amount of accidental shootings because of these "hair triggers".

Also, a cocked hammer on a 1911 just LOOKS SCARY doesn't it?
We don't want to alarm people. Can't you just hear the shouts - "Hey look, that cop's gun is cocked - isn't that dangerous?"

So the PC and bleeding heart liberals win again, and have conditioned people to think that an 8 lb. trigger pull is MUCH safer than a 4 lb. pull, and that cocked guns are just plain evil.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah god forbid we intimidate any criminals and make them think twice. But glocks aren't double action the have "safe action" correct? The glock pull isnt very long and tons of Police carry those?
 

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Originally posted by Greg1911:
But glocks aren't double action the have "safe action" correct? The glock pull isnt very long and tons of Police carry those?
Greg, repeat after me, "I will not try to understand the mind of a bureaucrat." It is not how the gun appears to the criminal that upsets police administrators it's how it appears to the public.
The average citizen has no idea that the basic revolver has no safety and they can’t understand why a police officer would carry his gun cocked.
 

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Actually Glocks are about 400-450 for LEO purchase. The price is a secondary consideration, after how will this look in court if we shoot somebody with it? You'll find most of the brass are clusless and know even less about guns. Just look at the fiasco in NJSP.
 

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I have not shot it but I have dry fired an LDA full size and companion. Both have excellent DA triggers. If it allows you to carry an 1911 when you otherwise would be prohibited, great.

I have an SA with lots of modifications that I won't carry for legal reasons. For carry I use a G23 or P32 depending on my clothing.

Yes, bureaucrats drive me nuts. I worked for an armored company that actually banned Glocks because they didn't have a manual safety. Never, never let lawyers make firearms policy.
 

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I have three single action 1911's, lovem all. I recently took work that required carrying a pistol. Only thing wrong is that the pistol has to be a DA only.
My three older guns were dis-allowed because of their being single action only.
I love the 1911 for carry and defense so I figure that a DA 1911 is what I will use.
I purchased a Para Ord 7-45LDA. It is the single stack model, feels just like the Kimber, Colt and Essex I presently own, except for the trigger.
After a very light take up, a very consistant shot to shot press breaks the trigger nicely. All I gotta do now is get used to the way the trigger feels, and finger placement seems to be critical. I'm pushing shots out the left side with it.
Yours in shooting
DVC
Kelly
 

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I remember, quite a number of years ago, sharing an elevator with a County Deputy or Sheriffs Deputy in the Dekalb County courthouse in Georgia. The Deputy was Black, Super-Strac, Left-Handed and carrying a high-gloss stainless, nickle or chrome 1911 with ivory grips, cocked and locked in a Patent-Leather thumb-break holster.

At this point I had spent my Army time and was painfully familiar with the 1911A1, but in the Army we always carried hammer down on an empty chamber. If I had come across another soldier carrying cocked and locked it would have been cause for disciplinary action.

So it made me uneasy to see his weapon in this condition. I know better now, but even then my weapons familiararity (sp?) was better than the average person. I understand now that I was at greater risk of cutting myself on the razor sharp crease in his trousers, but a very large number of people with authority over the issue will not abide the single action cocked and locked in regular service.

I don't want to start a flame war, but for the average LEO that stumbles up to the line at our range and shoots, I have to agree with them. I would like to see the various LEO agencies adopt some form of a firearms qualification program (e.g. Marksman, Sharpshooter, Pistol Expert, etc) that would permit determined LEO's to qualify and carry the weapon of their choice as they desire. Otherwise, I must sadly report, the typical LEO needs a very heavy and long trigger pull to protect the rest of us. I cannot count the number of times I have seen experienced LEO's pick guns up by the trigger and sweep themselves and others, finger on the trigger, in other than deadly force situations.

It's really a shame, but even the stock (5.5#) Glock trigger wasn't enough for some urban PD's. I believe the NY trigger setup for the Glock is somewhere around a 12# pull. As long as the ranks of many PD's are filled with urban born and raised kids that only saw guns on TV before joining the force, and the training and qualification programs compete somewhere behind vehicle maintenance and office supplies for funding, the single action hand gun is history in law enforcement IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Patrickl your right what was I thinking
"I will not try to understand the mind of a
bureaucrat."

Well never mind then I guess this question goes along with why in Ca is a weapon considered a assualt weapon if the grip "pertrudes" I guess that is what makes things ugly a pertruding grip,
 

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Originally posted by WalterMitty:
I don't want to start a flame war, but for the average LEO that stumbles up to the line at our range and shoots, I have to agree with them.....SNIP......I must sadly report, the typical LEO needs a very heavy and long trigger pull to protect the rest of us. I cannot count the number of times I have seen experienced LEO's pick guns up by the trigger and sweep themselves and others, finger on the trigger, in other than deadly force situations.
Sadly I am afraid that it's the same for the non-law enforcement people I see go to the line. Why we continue to focus on the bad habits of LE is beyond me when it's just as bad on the other side of the fence.

Heavier triggers are NOT the answer. They in fact only endanger innocents. Heavy triggers are a MAJOR contributor to poor marksmanship. If a person has poor gun skills in the first place and then you add in the handicap of a long heavy trigger you are only compounding the problem. The result is that rounds go everywhere except to the intended target.

Training is the answer.




[This message has been edited by Patrickl (edited 10-25-2001).]
 

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Again, my goal is *not* to flame LEO's or anybody else. I know LEO's that are good Marksmen and more. I would never impugn them.

It is a good point that poor gun handling skills and poor marksmanship are widespread in the general population. I also agree that heavier trigger pulls, while one kind of answer, is not the Right Answer. Proper training IS the Right Answer. Unfortunately, if the decision before-the-fact is that you will not do proper training, draconian safety measures follow as predictably as night follows day.
 

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Off topic reply...

Walter, do you still want to get rid of your Glock 21C? If so, send me an email.

-- PG


------------------
Para Ordnance C7.45 + Glock G36 == Uber Perfection
"An armed society is a polite society"
 

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Originally posted by Greg1911:
I am just interested in why so many people would want a double action 1911 styl gun I think single action shoots alot nicer and I feel they are safe and have no problem carrying cocked n locked, how does everyone else feel?
hey guys got my new lda 7 45 6 weeks
ago i shot the piss out of it 1500rds
then i decided i did not need it and did
not want to bother with trigger any more
you have to let the trigger reset
forward all the way. so i sold it last
week and i will stick sa 1911s till
something really useful comes along. it
was very accurate and i only had mag
problems and my finger not letting the
trigger reset.
 
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