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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just spent a few minutes looking at a gun case of about 50+ 1911s of different makers. The only non milspec gun that didn't have an upswept beavertail was - - COLT! It had the duckbill. Does anyone know why Colt insists on keeping the duckbill?
 

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The best reason I can think of is......not everyone would be happy
with what they used. Some prefer the Brown, other the Wilsons,
ect. ect. Same thing with the sights.....this way the buyer has control over what they want, Face it, how many of us leave a 1911 stock ? :D

Mike
 

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Pretty sad statement...Colt only sells building platforms? ;)
 

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Ed said:
....... Does anyone know why Colt insists on keeping the duckbill?...........

Tradition :)


We should be thankfull that somethings about Colt have not changed!!
 

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couple of handfulls of Colts

My Colt collection is getting to where I don't have enough fingers to count them. None have modified grip safeties. The upswing grip safety is supposed to keep you from getting bit by the hammer. I have NEVER been bit. Maybe its how I was taught to hold it a eon ago in the Army but I just don't get bit. I also like the original look.

There is a percieved advantage of the grip angle, I am just not curious enough to bugger up one of my old Colts to find out I don't like it. I have been playing with the idea but as it is a one way street on the modification, I am very cautious. I have a new series 80 NRM I am considering doing it to, but I am not going to sacrifice any of my old Colts to a experiment. I am also not convinced there is any real advantage, the modified grip safties are not allowed in Hardball (DCM) matches and if you want your shooting skills humbled, shoot against this crowd. The average shooter there will smoke most shooters. Colt, Springfield, Rock River, Les Baer, Clark and I am sure several others still make models this way. National Match guns have never used a high grip safety...two reasons tradition and not allowed in the rulebook.

I also agree with "mvician" it is a very subjective modification with a lot of variables that you may or may not like. I also think application rears it ugly head, carry guns and speed competitions seem to get the most use from it.

In reply to Ed's post of the 50 pistols you looked at how many of those grip safeties were slog jobs that I could pilot a tug boat through the gaps in the fit. If I want it done I want it right and big gaps as on some of the semi customs ( no names implied ) just doesn't impress me, I will have a competent smith do it right when I opt for the work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The guns I was referring to were all factory Kimbers, Springfields, Dan Wesson, Smith and Wesson, etc. They all had upswept safeties.
 

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I wish Colt would go back to the G.I. safety, rather than the pseudo beavertail of the enhanced and XSE pistols. I have beavertails, G.I., Commander, and no tang at all on my guns, and don't really see too much advantage to any of them, as long as the edges aren't sharp.
 

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The simple truth is we don't have one of our own, we would need to purchase after market, like on the gunsite pistol. All that would do is add cost. I personally go back and forth on this subject, I have a few guns with but more with the standard grip safety. I think we need to get to a place where we have one as a stock offering for those that like that feature, and then we would be able to look like all of the other 1911's on the market.
 

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Mark1648 said:
I think we need to get to a place where we have one as a stock offering for those that like that feature, and then we would be able to look like all of the other 1911's on the market.
Don't rush it Mark, the one thing Colt has that the others don't is tradition. Be proud! and keep pumpin' em out with those standard grip safeties!

Next thing you know you'll want to go to an external extractor :eek: !:eek: !

If it's not a Colt it's a ???? :biglaugh:
 

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If people don't want the original, why does it seem that whatever Colts a dealer gets in, sell? Not everyone wants a 1911 with the "Enhanced" features. There are quite a few who are completely satisfied with original setup. Now that I have my Colt I don't really look at the Kimbers and Springfields (except the Mil-Spec).
 

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Truth is you could keep the stock type you have now and also have a model that had less sharp edges, different sights and beavertails. The traditionalists would still have their historical baby and the carry guys would have a gun they wouldn't have to send out for modifications.
 

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"The carry guys"? Send out for modifications? I carry my stock Gov't Model Colt and have no problems. I bought it strictly for that reason. It isn't a safe queen.
 

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At the risk of sounding mean, Colt going from the XS to the XSE just made them look pathetic. Like they were too incompetent to offer a product with features on par with a Kimber Custom or SA Loaded. Is the XSE an objectively worse weapon because it has an uglier grip safety and standard Colt 3-dot sights instead of swoopy lo-mounts? That's debatable. Does it make the product look like a joke compared to its competition? Yes... Colt cheerleaders notwithstanding.

On its own merits, the XSE is no doubt a fine production gun. As competition for Kimber Customs and SA Loaded models, it simply doesn't cut it.

And funny how I saw my stock 01991 as a lethal weapon, not a "historical baby." Must have been the whole reliability/accuracy/.45 ACP thing. ;)
 

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I too prefer the standard setup. I don't want ambi safeties, beavertails, external extractors, forward serrations, etc. That being said, I'd hope Colt would continue making the traditional pistols, but as others have said, it might be good for Colt to bring out a "modernized" or "loaded" pistols for those who liek the non-standard features.

But to be honest, I think Colt sells on the fact that it's name is associated with traditional designs, and should never drop their traditional weapons.
 

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Mark1648 said:
The simple truth is we don't have one of our own, we would need to purchase after market, like on the gunsite pistol. All that would do is add cost. I personally go back and forth on this subject, I have a few guns with but more with the standard grip safety. I think we need to get to a place where we have one as a stock offering for those that like that feature, and then we would be able to look like all of the other 1911's on the market.

Two points:

The duck bill sucks. It is ill fitted and uncomfortable. I cannot imagine it is going to cost more than the time and money I have to spend to fix something that should be a standard feature.

The reason 1911’s look the same is because they have features customers want. Not listening to the voice of the customer is what got Colt in trouble in the first place. If you offered an XSE with desirable features I would buy one in a heart beat. As it stands, I would need to spend a few hundred more to get it to where it should be.
 

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The reason 1911’s look the same is because they have features customers want. Not listening to the voice of the customer is what got Colt in trouble in the first place
The voice of most customers is that they want the Gov't Model as is. Yes there are those of you that want your' "Enhanced" features, but read thru the threads, people like the Colts they are buying as is.
 

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I'm not sure what looks has to do with features on a 1911.

Mil-specs look the same also. Some have a better polish, different logo, etc, but they look the same to me. Same with the "loaded" models, give or take on polish, sights, serrations, etc.

A good way to determine whether the majority of consumers want mil-specs is to raise the price up to the "loaded" models and see what happens. Colt is the only one that would sell some.
You don't really have to do that because that question has already been answered by Kimber, Springfield and all the other new brands introduced, none of which are mil-specs except for low priced entries.

The point is Colt, like Springfield, doesn't have to decide for the consumer which one they want. Simply offer a model with the enhanced features at a price they can make money. Hopefully, it's within reason.

Gunsite pricing is not going to cut it...so to speak.
The XSE is "neither fish nor fowl" and about $100 or so more than Kimber already. It's hard to believe many of these are sold.

Perhaps, you take the XSE and put on a proper well fit beavertail, get rid of the front serrations, add Heine type sights, etc and raise the price another $100. It will "look" different than the typical double serrated, novak sighted guns. Buying name brand parts may help justify the extra cost anyway.

As always, just an opinion. :)
 

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Rob96 said:
The voice of most customers is that they want the Gov't Model as is. Yes there are those of you that want your' "Enhanced" features, but read thru the threads, people like the Colts they are buying as is.
You think if Colt put out a loaded model it wouldn't sell? I would bet the Springfield and Kimber markets would take a big hit if folks could get a Colt dressed the way they want it. The can still put out the traditional model also for those that want them. This isn't an either/or situation. We can have both.
 

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Rob96 said:
The voice of most customers is that they want the Gov't Model as is. Yes there are those of you that want your' "Enhanced" features, but read thru the threads, people like the Colts they are buying as is.
The Government model is not the issue. The problem is the XSE. If you read the threads, "people don't like” the cheesy features. Your logic is flawed concerning "enhanced" features. If you are going to build and XSE, why not add the features people ask for? Why do people want to find the elusive XS for their collection?


See:

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51700&highlight=colt+xse

 
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