1911Forum banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I see so many complaints on the various forums, I wonder how many buyers take their new gun from the dealer to the range, and grumble about how it "doesn't shoot right"?
Most of you are savvy enough to clean it first. Do you clean & lube the magazine? New ones need it.
As an amateur gunsmith, I'm often pleasantly surprised by how little it takes to make a crappy gun into a respectable shooter. Sometimes a total disassemble, including the magazine, and cleaning in the ultrasonic bath, some deburr work, and a proper lube job, will work wonders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,699 Posts
I see so many complaints on the various forums, I wonder how many buyers take their new gun from the dealer to the range, and grumble about how it "doesn't shoot right"?
Most of you are savvy enough to clean it first. Do you clean & lube the magazine? New ones need it.
As an amateur gunsmith, I'm often pleasantly surprised by how little it takes to make a crappy gun into a respectable shooter. Sometimes a total disassemble, including the magazine, and cleaning in the ultrasonic bath, some deburr work, and a proper lube job, will work wonders.
How many people buy a car and go home and tear down the engine before driving?

IMO, with a little lube, it should be ready to shoot sitting in the case at the LGS.
Anything less is letting the manufacturers get away with shoddy QC practices.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,830 Posts
IMO, a good gun shop salesman (is that an oxymoron?) should ascertain the knowledge level of the gun purchaser, and if they sense the purchaser is inexperienced, then salesperson should advise them to clean & lube prior to shooting. Of course, it would be good if an inexperienced purchaser would read the manual prior to shooting it, but I suspect very few do that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,636 Posts
I have never gone from the gun store directly to the range. I always tear down a new gun and clean/lube. But I've never put lube on a magazine before. I do clean my mags, but no oil or lube.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,499 Posts
I am pretty picky about new guns also.

I try to make sure that they have the right caliber of ammunition for them when I take them out the first time.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
461 Posts
How many people buy a car and go home and tear down the engine before driving?
The dealer preps the car before purchase, check the sticker, you pay for it. Any firearm has most likely been laying around stacked on a pallet at the manufacturer for who knows how long. Then on a pallet and a shelf at a wholesale distributor. All hot dusty dirty environments. Laying in the same position, with what little bit of lube has been applied, running to the lowest position it can find. Call it gun lividity. First thing on the 'do before you use' list in a firearms paperwork is...... clean and lube as per instructions before use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,075 Posts
When I buy ANYTHING new, I expect it to function perfectly. I don't care how long its sat on a shelf or pallet, or whatever the environment was. That is not my problem. In the case of a 1911 a little lube to the slide could be necessary. Nothing more. 1911's are notorious for malfunctions outa the box. Translates to poor QC.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,450 Posts
When I buy ANYTHING new, I expect it to function perfectly. I don't care how long its sat on a shelf or pallet, or whatever the environment was. That is not my problem. In the case of a 1911 a little lube to the slide could be necessary. Nothing more. 1911's are notorious for malfunctions outa the box. Translates to poor QC.
While I expect a new product to work properly, I also understand that anything made by man can fail, and things can happen in the process of getting from factory to end user. How something was stored and handled certainly IS the end users problem, as he's the one that will have to deal with the resulting problems should they arise.

I've a NIB M1911A1 that I will guarantee, unequivocally, will NOT fire right now, probably won't even chamber a round. Its a military surplus Remington Rand that the government let go in the 60s, I think my dad paid $40 for it. Its in its original box, wrapped in the original paper, with the original cosmoline packed in it. I have no reason to think its defective in any way, but it certainly requires some user prep to get operational.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,191 Posts
Years ago the wife and I picked up a new Sigma (don't snicker snobites). First thing before going the range I cleaned and lubed the gun, but didn't touch the mags. At the range the gun was running well at first, but I started having a few hangups with it that I didn't think was break-in related.

I stopped, pulled the mags apart and just ran a clean rag through the body and wiped down the springs. Reassembled and resumed firing. Never a bobble after that. Lesson learned. Someone else would have complained that it was junk and didn't work.

While I rarely buy new guns, if I do and I want to give the gun every reasonable chance to choke up I will take it straight from the box and run it as it comes out and with hollow points. I figure if the gun runs without a hitch like that it should be fine with proper treatment. If it does hang I do the C&L and give it a chance under more normal use circumstances.

As an amateur gunsmith, I'm often pleasantly surprised by how little it takes to make a crappy gun into a respectable shooter. Sometimes a total disassemble, including the magazine, and cleaning in the ultrasonic bath, some deburr work, and a proper lube job, will work wonders.
I hope the reference here is not something that should be expected to need to be done to a new gun to get it shoot though. ;)

I do agree though that people should not expect a new gun, or even a used one to go straight from the store to the range and run without a hitch without doing a reasonable clean and lube first.

It's pretty much been standard and common knowledge, at least in the past, that you clean and lube a new gun prior to shooting it. Educators would call that part of the Hidden Curriculum. Those things we normally learn and absorb by association and experience. However, there are a lot of people coming into guns and any number of things who have never been around them or learned about them from association with others who were actually a little knowledgeable about them.

Same thing happen(s) with carbon steel knives. For a century or more it was understood and even desirable that carbon steel knives develop a patina. A carbon steel knife will start to discolor the first time you use it or will rust if you carry it without wiping it down once in a while. Yet when people who had that disconnect and were never exposed to the use of carbon steel knives in the kitchen or the pocket as I and others here were, they come screaming back to the store ranting because their shiny new knife discolored when they cut an orange or rusted when they left it sitting wet in the sink overnight.

And yes, I do tell people I sell guns to who seem be a little new to them or who I sense don't have that level of understanding just yet. I think it's a says good things about QC and design that so many of the handguns sold new today actually do run right out of the box by so many greenhorns who don't know any better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,989 Posts
Last year bought a CZ over/under 20 ga. Inspected it at the gun shop before purchase and that was it. Next day took it on a rabbit hunt with my brother and nephew. Very first round ever fired with the gun took a nice size rabbit. :rock:

That is how all guns should be, function just right for their intended purchase immediately upon purchase.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
New shotguns usually come shipped with a thick grease covering the barrel and internals. If you were to try and shoot some gas cycling semis right out of the box odds are they won't cycle. I've never considered that a defect. It keeps the gun rust free during storage. So having to clean up a new gun and properly lube isn't an issue.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
73,019 Posts
When I buy ANYTHING new, I expect it to function perfectly. I don't care how long its sat on a shelf or pallet, or whatever the environment was. That is not my problem. In the case of a 1911 a little lube to the slide could be necessary. Nothing more. 1911's are notorious for malfunctions outa the box. Translates to poor QC.
Every new 1911 I've bought the past few years was taken completely apart, cleaned and lubed before firing the first shot though it. Almost every time the extractor had to be tensioned and the sear spring tweaked. The last one even needed the slide stop tab filed down a bit to prevent bullet contact. While I'm not a professional gunsmith I know what to look for, and I have to say that most sub-$1500 1911s need some additional tweaking and tuning out of the box. Once tuned up they're solidly reliable, but I can't trust the manufacturers to tension the extractors right among other things so no I wouldn't rely on a 1911 for defense straight out of the box.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,628 Posts
Once again, THE STUFF THE GUN COMES COATED WITH IS NOT A LUBE, it is a preservative.

To think otherwise is naive and optemistic. The mags as well.

Bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,812 Posts
I see so many complaints on the various forums, I wonder how many buyers take their new gun from the dealer to the range, and grumble about how it "doesn't shoot right"?
Most of you are savvy enough to clean it first. Do you clean & lube the magazine? New ones need it.
As an amateur gunsmith, I'm often pleasantly surprised by how little it takes to make a crappy gun into a respectable shooter. Sometimes a total disassemble, including the magazine, and cleaning in the ultrasonic bath, some deburr work, and a proper lube job, will work wonders.
Probably a similar number as the folks that run to the internet to make a thread in which they gripe about other people, griping.

:rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
779 Posts
While I expect a new product to work properly, I also understand that anything made by man can fail, and things can happen in the process of getting from factory to end user. How something was stored and handled certainly IS the end users problem, as he's the one that will have to deal with the resulting problems should they arise.

I've a NIB M1911A1 that I will guarantee, unequivocally, will NOT fire right now, probably won't even chamber a round. Its a military surplus Remington Rand that the government let go in the 60s, I think my dad paid $40 for it. Its in its original box, wrapped in the original paper, with the original cosmoline packed in it. I have no reason to think its defective in any way, but it certainly requires some user prep to get operational.
I would gladly double your money and give you $80 for it. You don't even have to clean it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,059 Posts
When I buy ANYTHING new, I expect it to function perfectly. I don't care how long its sat on a shelf or pallet, or whatever the environment was. That is not my problem. In the case of a 1911 a little lube to the slide could be necessary. Nothing more. 1911's are notorious for malfunctions outa the box. Translates to poor QC.
Every Colt I've bought over the last 50 years has functioned normally ... right out of the box. The only 1911 that did not function (out of the box) was a Kimber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,600 Posts
IMO, a good gun shop salesman (is that an oxymoron?) should ascertain the knowledge level of the gun purchaser, and if they sense the purchaser is inexperienced, then salesperson should advise them to clean & lube prior to shooting. Of course, it would be good if an inexperienced purchaser would read the manual prior to shooting it, but I suspect very few do that.
Rod, did I read this correctly? Did you say a gun salesman had knowledge of guns? You're not going to the same gun shops I frequent.

By the way, I have never taken a new magazine apart before shooting it unless it looked like it had a problem. As you said, read the manual. The manufacturer should know what to do with your new gun better than anyone else.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,450 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,075 Posts
WCCountryboy,
Nope, not my problem as I see it. If it does not function upon opening it goes back to the store for refund or exchange. Then it's someone elses problem.
Unlike DSK I do not like to tinker with anything. Either it works or it doesn't. Nothing inbetween. YMMV
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,107 Posts
Most of my new firearms come with some sort of a storage corrosion-preventing grease and with an instruction manual. My expectations are that the firearm should work if I follow the recommendations in the instruction manual. Most of those manuals specify that you clean off the storage grease and lube the firearm before use. If I do not follow their instructions, the firearm may very well not function perfectly right out of the box. That is my fault and not the fault of the gun or the gun maker.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top