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Discussion Starter #1
Hello group, I had a customer come in that had bought his DW at another store and wanted a second opinion about his $690.00 Whsle gun.
The rough draggy feel was cured with a good cleaning and a liberal application of Break Free.
The factory "IDIOT" mark left from an idiot at the factory installing the slide lock against the frame instead of into the frame hole was cured by the customer later after my recommendation of carefull touchup with grey Scotch Brite.
That was it for my freebe tune up, the major problem was/is the zero extractor tension with the new "Improved" external extractor! The extractor had bottomed out on the slide and still made zero contact with the cartridhe rim! I suggested either call Serva or fix it yerself or I'll file a clearance cut on the extractor to create proper tension.
No pic so,
with slide field stripped and case slide under extractor, light was clearly seen between the opposite side of the extractor and the bolt/breechface with zero/nada extractor tension!!??
The customers other concern was that the extractor at rest was protruding much more from the flat of slide than another he'd seen (approx .150 with a sharp edge) and had assumed that the extractor would lie flat to match the slde profile (I dunno what's correct on the DW..flat/protruding?)
I commented to him that the risk of shipping damage was high and offered to tune the extractor for $35.00 and he declined and was gonna call Bob.
All in all, IMO the STS DW was a much nicer gun than the two Kimbers and Springfield I tuned today but shouldn't a Best of Grade 1911 been inspected a littel more closely before being shipped???
The external extractor is IMO a gidget to eliminate the many factory returns for a simple tweaking (DW-Kimber-Colt-Springfield NIB tune-ups just today!) BUT It appears that someone has screwed up the blueprint and that QC (any?) has allowed this gun to be delivered!
C'mon DW/Bob.... here's your chance to actually be different from the OTHER 1911 folks (geez, I forgot to mention the STI that had zero tension) and
Do It Right at the factory!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
OBTW-

The plated yellow grip safety would be almost acceptable had it benn fit properly to avoid the unsightly frame scratches caused by the simple movement of the grip safety inside the frame.
 

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So what made this gun better than the Kimber and SA? It sounds like there were some major problems, yet you still say it was better? Were the Kimber and SA broken in half?
 

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Kinda reminds me of the old days with old cars.......you really needed to be one who loved to tinker as that was what was needed to keep them running. Otherwise, off to the dealer for repairs.

Regards,
Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Gun Cranking 1911s-

Ladies and gents I've been tweaking 1911s for a lot of years.
Perhaps the DW advantage was simple as a Cross with a Northern Star? In this dangerously politically correct time Mr. Serva has chosen to fly the cross of Jesus amongst the winds of the anti's???
Try and get the guns right Bob!
It could be that your supplier is attempting a coup' by supplying the odd screwed up parts or your QC man is shipping defective guns.......it has happened before Bob!
Checking individual guns extractor tension ain't rocket science!
I'd like to expect better than average QC from the new guy on the block BOB!
The examples from the Razorback line show excessive relief cuts that a 10mm Does Not Need!
Unsupported Chambers resembling Grocks (my spelling!) appears to be the order of the day in the Centimeter Line?
As a Gun Culture type of gun crank I will not recommend the Razor nor buy one because a SAFE barrel from KKM or Barsto seems excessive to add to a "best of grade" Centimeter!
 

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Grip safeties have been changed to stainless a few moths ago. No more plating. The reason we plated is that the supplies did not make them in Stainless steel. We now have an all new Stainless steel beavertail.

Thanks,
Bob
DWF
:) :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The Bob Serva?

Hello Sir!
BTW Bob, the absolute least problem listed was the colour of the grip safety. Any comments as to assembly screw ups marring Or to the most important extractor tension?
Geez BOB! I've repaired/tuned a half dozen of yor guns right here in Anchorage FREE OF CHARGE because I'm an old school idiot I suppose.
Just suppose that your gun jammed up in the course of defending oneself against a brown bear here in Alaska? Just this year a GLOCK was used (10mm) to down a charging brownie sow, the more than several DW products I've tuned would not have functioned in factory trim!
 

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But you have to pay shipping and wait so a local fix free of charge is much nicer. And when you work with a guy in person you can tell if he's got it right or not. Playing Fedex ping pong takes a long time and gets expensive.

You won't get comments addressing the real functional QC issues, I have yet to see one on here.

What you do get is told to take 'em to a local smith and have them fix 'em (not by DW employees, by the locals).
 

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Who Did it?

Having purchased a few firearms in my life from "Dealers" and Local shops,the question as to who did what always enters. When you go to the shops you have 1) customers handling guns they are not familiar with,2) shop employees showing the customer how to cycle the gun etc.3) the owner of the shop playing with the gun. Out of all this exposure to EXPERTS most handguns suffer some abuse.Perhaps no one should even break the seal on a box before it is sold,then the owner can be the first one to handle it and if he so chooses ask for help from the seller.My problem is when I buy something new,I want it to be new.This would stop the marks from the factory on the slide,which I'am sure were done after shipping,as well as MANY other complaints that I believe were done by the EXPERTS handling the guns.After the purchase ROUTINE maintenance is always a question,type of ammo,who reloaded it ,after market SUPERIOR? parts,and of course the ever present expert that knows more than the manufacturer. External or internal neither one will take some of the abuse some people choose to put on them.Yes I like Dan Wessons 1911-A1's,also Springfield Armory's,and I DO NOT have a problem with a Cross on my gun,God on my money,or in my daily life.
 

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tlohern......
Abuse......possibly after the pistols have been out on the shelf for awhile.

But who do you blame when the grips won't seat properly and rattle, fresh out of the box, or the front sight is missing fresh out of the box, or there are cosmetic issues, fresh out of the box, or the slide wont lock back fresh out of the box, or the hammer drops when the safety is applied fresh out of the box, or how about a hammer that won't drop when the trigger is pulled, fresh out of the box etc. ? Nope, it's not the gunshop "EXPERTS" it's factory QC.

Now on the other hand, when DW makes a pistol right, they can't be beat for their performance, appearance or value.

Having the Cross on the pistol is a bonus.

Regards,
Sam
 

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Lets add to the list... mag catches that break, plunger tubes that break, mainspring housing pins that break, extractors with no tension, guns that won't feed or lock back, etc.

Don't blame poor QC on the folks who buy the guns, or the folks who sell the guns, put the blame on the factory where it belongs. Only if they take responsibility for this can they ever hope to improve. If the cross implies they are Christians, then that is a principle they should be very much familiar with.

Yes the guns are a great value when they don't break.

Yes they will TRY to fix it, but they won't necessarily get it right even after a 2nd trip (personal experience - I have 4 DWs, one is great, the rest are unusable after multiple factory trips - next stop is local gunsmith when I have the time and $).

If they can't get it right the 1st or 2nd time, why would anyone think a 3rd or Nth trip would do the job?

I'm glad you've had a good experience w/your guns, but that's no reason to try to blame folks for the problems they've had.
 

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dpcdivr said:
Very good points, Mr. OHern. And, Rich, DW would have fixed it for free, and with a good attitude.
Let's define free.

Does your time cost anything?
Does shipping cost anything?
Does wasted time at the range finding out your new gun doesn't work cost anything?

If not, then you are right, they would have fixed it free.

YES they have good customer service, but it is NOT free.
 

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gd2000.....

Or, how about sending your pistol back for free repairs and it worked before you sent it in and it didn't work once you got it back. Now that's exciting. No gunshop EXPERTS were around to do that, only DW QC or the lack thereof.

Regards,
Sam
 

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External Extractors

No doubt ALL manufacturers have a slip or two,that is Not a point of discussion.New in the box means what? To the customer one thing,to the shop owner another.Next time you buy a NEW car see if it has 500 miles on it. A gun that has been handled or abused by a distributor,or shop owner is NOT new?Perhaps it was sent out and returned,incorrect gun,customer not happy.I own two Dan Wessons,like them both, I understand if there was a problem I would expect Dan Wesson to make it good. I have spent many an hour at the range,watching and listening to others at the range.Some of the people there do not understand care and handling of a firearm never mind how the maintenance should be done. I have seen the condition of firearms after someone has only had it " a few months",rust ,dirt, neglect.Owners have some responsibility in owning a gun.Sending one back to the factory and getting it back not working,I don't know, thats a new one to me.If I had one that would not work,I would continue to send it back until it was correct.Make a choice your times value or the pleasures of the gun.
 

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tlohern

what the heck is your point????? That last post made NO sense.

You're saying some folks don't know how to take care of their guns. Ok fine. Do you think the guy who lets his guns get rusty and abuses them spends time hanging out on 1911forum to discuss firearms???

So what are you going on about?

Have you even read the threads on here about all the problems with the RZ's from the factory? Well documented with photos?

Or about all the small parts breakage? Heck even the mag catch on stephen camp's gun which was REVIEWED ON HERE - 1911forum's first official firearm review - (http://www.1911forum.com/dw_001_02.shtml scroll down to the bottom, same thing happened to my patriot twice) busted during the first range session. I finally replaced mine with an aftermarket part and have not had it break again.

Your experience is 2 guns and speculation because you see people at the range w/guns they don't clean/take care of?

If I had one that would not work,I would continue to send it back until it was correct.Make a choice your times value or the pleasures of the gun.
My guess is you don't realize it costs $25-$35 per trip to send the gun in, plus in some places you have to take it to a real fedex counter, not a drop off location, because of their firearms shipping policy?

So after 2 trips you would keep sending it back on your dime until it was fixed? Guess you have an endless supply of $. But if that were the case why not buy a better gun?
 

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SamColtFan said:
gd2000.....

Or, how about sending your pistol back for free repairs and it worked before you sent it in and it didn't work once you got it back. Now that's exciting. No gunshop EXPERTS were around to do that, only DW QC or the lack thereof.

Regards,
Sam
That's the worst. Inexcusable. I'm not trying to beat up on DW. I'm glad to see an alternative to the other 1911 makers out there. I'm glad to see a Christian unashamed of his faith. I just think it doesn't do anyone a service to sweep the QC problems under the run.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
T O'hern?

I too was wondering if you'd read the above posts since you commented on a scratched side and I had written about a scratched frame.
Mr Serva has apparantly had his say yet again on the 1911/DW forums without actually addressing the consumers complaints!
As to the question of other handlers scratching the gun, the gun in question came directly from a distributor and was special ordered with the specific direction that nobody was to handle the gun except under the customers watchfull eyes. Picky customer? Maybe, maybe not.
The external extractor was/is used to avoid factory returns and because many shooters just don't wanna tune their guns and don't wanna learn how cuz after all there are a good number of the plastic guns ot there that work fine without any special tuning!
On the example mentioned that ZERO extractor tension in the external extractor model DW I'd have appreciated a pointed or two either online or via PM as to any tricks that DW may have found for TUNING an external extractor!
Rework in the manufacturing sector is a very ugly and expensive problem.
 
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