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Hi,

What does the external extractor, like that on the KZ45 accomplish? What other 1911s have it? Just curious.

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Hi Skunk,

I'm the wrong guy to ask what other guns have external extractors besides the KZ45, but from what I understand, one of the (very) few flaws of JMB's original 1911 design was that the extractor relied on a single piece of spring steel (the extractor itself) to maintain correct tension.

In other words, when you fire your 1911, you're flexing the extractor. After a while, they wear out, or change tension, resulting in FTE's.

An external extractor can be made of a very rigid piece of metal, and tensioned by a calibrated (and replaceable) spring. It can also be hinged, since its travel isn't limited by the extractor slot. You end up getting a more reliable extractor that way.

What I don't know is, now they make 2 & 3-piece extractors for 1911's with springs inside them, extractors that have funky shaped shanks, etc. Do these help? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

HTH,

/TCP

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Measure Twice....Cut Once
 

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Hey Skunk, One More Thing!

Let me get this straight: You're a Chinese American who loves 1911's, plays bluegrass, and flies airplanes? Only in AMERICA!!!! More power to you, bro!

We'll have to go for a cruise in my Aero Commander to a suitable shooting range sometime!

More importantly, is that YOU playing the music on the front page of skunkabilly.com? You Da Man!

Cheers,

/TCP

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Measure Twice....Cut Once
 

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Originally posted by TCPilot:

What I don't know is, now they make 2 & 3-piece extractors for 1911's with springs inside them, extractors that have funky shaped shanks, etc. Do these help? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Re sprung internal extractors, I believe you're thinking of the Aftec brand. I have no personal experience with them, but do know that they're used by some high-end smiths for "full house" (i.e. maximum $$) setups. These extractors go for $70 or so. Spendy, but they fit a regular slide as opposed to having to go for an entire new slide assembly.

Re external vs. internal, I guess JMB had some second thoughts about the internal extractor on the 1911 since he changed to external for what became the HiPower.
 

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Aftec extractors are the best thing since extended safties IMHO. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
 

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Originally posted by TCPilot:
What I don't know is, now they make 2 & 3-piece extractors for 1911's with springs inside them, extractors that have funky shaped shanks, etc. Do these help? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
I have had excellent results with the Aflec (sp) extractor in an SV40. This gun had recurring extraction problems with more than one standard extractor - it was getting heavy use at the time and they just would not stay reliable. A Smith friend recommend the (Aflec) and installed it for me. The SV is now 100% reliable and the new extractor has never been out of the gun. It's been about 3 years and probably 10k rounds or so since installation.



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Whoever said you can’t buy happiness never owned a good 1911.
 

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The main advantage of the external extractor is that if it is made to spec, it requires no fitting. The internal Colt/Browning requires tension adjustment = manhours = $.

The main problem with current production 1911 extractors is that they are not finished. There are cuts and contours that not always put there by the manufacturer. Another problem is that they are not spring steel. Most are 4140 or other barrel alloy - if not a casting or MIM - that does not give as good a spring temper as plain old carbon steel. Cylinder & Slide advertises a spring steel extractor, and there are still some real military parts here and there.

By the way, LenB, John Browning (nor Dieudonne Saive) no way no how put an external extractor on the BHP. The external extractor and the ugly roll pin holding the sear bar were an economy measure instituted in the '70s. Get a look at an older BHP. It will have no external extractor. You will see an oval plate in the serrations on the right side of the slide. It is the top of a complicated little retainer for the slide internals. Cylinder & Slide also has replacement BHP internal extractors. They are more than twice the price of C&S 1911 extractors, so you can see FN's motivation for the redesign. I don't know where you would get the retainer if you lost one those.
 

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The Aftec Extractor is really slick and very reliable(wish I had thought of it-LOL)....just needs a little polishing and tweaking like everything 1911
. It adds 3 parts, 2 small springs and a sleeve, all contained and captive within the slide where they can't go anywhere. You only need to be careful not to lose the springs when you detail strip the gun for cleaning. Aftec includes 2 extra springs with the part.
 

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Originally posted by Jim Watson:
By the way, LenB, John Browning (nor Dieudonne Saive) no way no how put an external extractor on the BHP...
Heh. That's the great thing about the internet - guaranteed there's always someone who knows more than you do. Thanks for the info.
 

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Originally posted by TCPilot:
Hey Skunk, One More Thing!


We'll have to go for a cruise in my Aero Commander to a suitable shooting range sometime!

WooHoo! Long Live Bob Hoover! Saw his show one time in his Rockwell Aerocommander. That man is impressive!! I'm also an avation nut, but I only could afford the ones you fly standing on the ground!
Include me in on that range trip too.
 

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ScottsGT,

Bob Hoover is the man who decided me on an Aero Commander. He used to get his Shrike engines done here in Palo Alto, CA and I had a nice conversation with him about 3 years ago...not 2 weeks after I saw his show!

There are lots of Twin Commander Flight Group members on the eastern seaboard, in the Carolinas, lots in FL, etc. I'll be out there next summer. Let's do it!

Cheers,

/TCP

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Good thread!

I've been fooling with a Wilson KZ-45 a bit lately...mainly to check out the external extractor. It seems to work well and is probably a better mousetrap. Larry Vickers noted that the 1911's two main weaknesses were the extractor and the seperate plunger tube. The KZ-45 addresses BOTH of these issues.

Skunkabilly,
Bluegrass RULES! I especially like Blue Highwayand the Seldom Scene. Great music and darn few (if any) pukey liberal prima donnas involved.

Bob Hoover is perhaps the smoothest areobatic flyer I've ever seen. Whether in the P-51 or the Super Shrike, he is always a treat to see fly. He is a nice gentleman too.

Rosco

[This message has been edited by Rosco Benson (edited 12-04-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by Rosco Benson:
Good thread!

[snip] The KZ-45 addresses BOTH of these issues.

Skunkabilly,
Bluegrass RULES! I especially like Blue Highwayand the Seldom Scene. Great music and darn few (if any) pukey liberal prima donnas involved.

Bob Hoover is perhaps the smoothest areobatic flyer I've ever seen. Whether in the P-51 or the Super Shrike, he is always a treat to see fly. He is a nice gentleman too.
Yessir! Wings, strings and things that go 'boom'. The finest things in life AREN'T free! Cessna = $150,000, banjo = $3000, Wilson CQB = $1800. Your first and second amendment rights = priceless.

I spoke at length with a Wilson rep on the phone (very nice folks, they won't hang up on you if you aren't buying anything from them, and are very helpful at answering questions) and the guy I spoke to said the external extractor may not be the best answer. He felt that maybe not all the bugs with it were hammered out and felt I'd be better off with the traditional CQB slide (I asked about sending back a CQB and having a KZ slide put on it). Still, I would like an external extractor.

Rosco (isn't that sheriff's deputy from Dukes of Hazzard with the dog?
), Blue Highway came out to California to play last August, Rob Ickes is awesome. The guy I learned Dobro from had a few lessons with Rob.

Wonder why they are called Dobros? 'Cuz they cost a lot of dough, bro'!

Yes, I agree that most of the bluegrass people are conservative. You'll get a few liberals, espeically the people who cross over from the folk-type stuff and the jam bands, though I hate their politics and don't necessarily agree with the necessity of becoming chemically challenged, I respect their musical abilities. A lot of the liberals in bluegrass came into bluegrass from other genres (mainly folk).

How many folk musicians does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but the rest of them will sing about how much better the old one was.

Seriously, I think Earl Scruggs himself was anti-war and I have a picture of him in a banjo book with a dove and peace sign strap. But he's Earl and he can do anything!
 

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Originally posted by ScottsGT:
WooHoo! Long Live Bob Hoover! [/B]
For all you aviation buffs, I highly recommend Bob Hoover's autobiography Forever Flying. It's a great read! General Chuck Yeager once said of Bob Hoover, "he's the greatest pilot I ever saw." 'Nuff said!-TR



[This message has been edited by TangoRomeo (edited 12-08-2001).]
 

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Hey TR,

Been there, done that! Everybody I know has seen Chuck Yeager break the sound barrier, without ever knowing that BH was the chase pilot in that T-33 (which is in itself a great story--BH was *supposed* to be the sound barrier pilot!).

I remember BH flew a B-25 off a beach in Italy in about 2,100 feet. My Shrike Aero Commander can barely do that if it's full of fuel!

/TCP

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