[charles tolman]

Have a 1911 colt commander and para 1911 high cp. both in 45 cal. Both guns shoot extremely well at 25 yards . I put a new sight on the commander as it was shooting high 6 inches. Went from a 200 to a 240 Dawson with adj. combat rear sight. It now shoots to point of aim with 4 clicks up on rear sight. Will competition handholds shoot lower or higher? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Shooting winchester white box 230 gr and pmc 230. Both seem to shoot pretty well but sights seem to high.

 

[Old Grumpy]

It has been my experience that loads running about the same velocity will impact about the same at 25 yards. I've read where a lot of it has to do with how long the bullet is in the barrel. Longer receives a little more recoil rise while shorter receives less. I have no idea if this is actually one of the reasons but it sounds plausible.

Still my point of impact changes more relative to the velocity than about anything else I've encountered. (when speaking about pistols at 25 yards)

I have a feeling the point of impact of a .308 at 500 yards changes due to totally different factors.

Just my $0.02
Grumpy

 

[evets5321]

I haven't seen much difference between 200 gr. bullets moving at 750 fps and 200 gr. bullets moving at 850 fps. I do see a LITTLE difference between 200 and 230 gr. bullets but I can't hold it that steady when moving and shooting at IDPA matches. I do some security work for fun and we practice shooting at 50 yards. My commander is dead on at 18 yards and again at 50....an inch and a half high or low doesn't make much difference in the real world IMHO

 

[Trigger Creep]

Depends upon the 'competition handload'. They're all different.

Charles, you'll have to test 'competition handloads' yourself in your guns to see where they impact. Each load is different.

Velocity is a big part of the equation, along with your grip, barrel length, and the weight distribution of the gun.

Two handloads at exactly the same velocity impact at different points (not just vertical but also horizontal). Every load is different. That's why you get adjustable sights on target guns.

Every gun is its own platform with each handload. You gotta test to find out.

 

[bgw45]

It is very common to see bullseye shooters using different loads at the short and long lines (25/50 yards. Many comp shooters/reloaders find differences between barrels that require tuning for that weapon. Do I get that serious, no. I'm just having fun. When the fun stops, so will I

 

[charles tolman]

Thanks all,but do light target loads shoot lower or higher in a 45? These are my first 1911's.Trying to finalize my sights on my commander.

 

[Trigger Creep]

I know you want an easy 'Lower or Higher' answer, but it ain't so easy. They are all different.

Fair expectation with no guarantee:

If it is a very light target load, your muzzle has more time to rise higher before the bullet leaves the barrel, so point of impact may be higher. Maybe.

 

[RetiredRod]

I will venture a SWAG that there will be no more than 4" elevational POI difference @ 25 yards between a 185gr bullet @ 750fps and a 230gr bullet @ 950fps.

 

[BillD]

I know you want an easy 'Lower or Higher' answer, but it ain't so easy. They are all different.

Fair expectation with no guarantee:

If it is a very light target load, your muzzle has more time to rise higher before the bullet leaves the barrel, so point of impact may be higher. Maybe.

I watched the 73000 frames per second of a round being fired. It looked to me like the gun didn't move until the bullet left the barrel.

 

[RetiredRod]

I watched the 73000 frames per second of a round being fired. It looked to me like the gun didn't move until the bullet left the barrel.

Interesting point, Bill. It looked that way to me, too. Rather than veer this thread in another direction, this topic should have it's own thread. Probably in a more widely read sub-forum than Reloading. This would have broad interest to all shooters, not just reloaders.

 

[Trigger Creep]

There is another thread already. Somewhere.

Rod, rather than another thread, we had a thread a couple years ago. Maybe someone with better Search Foo than me can find it. It includes a photo by a member who put a revolver upside down on a table so you can see that the front sight is WAAAYYYY taller than rear site relative to centerline of bore. Every traditional handgun gripped normally rotates as the bullet moves through the barrel.

I understand, Bill. It only takes 1/4 degree rise in muzzle to make point of impact raise 4" at 25 yards. Do the trigonometry. You won't see 1/4 degree at 73,000 frames per second.

 

[Trigger Creep]

Back to topic.

Charles, I went back and looked at my old targets. A softy Bullseye load in my 4.5" Beretta seems to be about 1.5" higher than normal, but I didn't find a 45acp target for 1911, it must be deeper in the stack. Not sure exactly how much a 'very light target load' will vary in your gun, you'll have to try it yourself. There are thousands of different very light target loads. They are all different.

 

[Rwehavinfunyet]

Bullet POI.....

Generally speaking, a lighter bullet weight at the same velocity as a heavier bullet weight will shoot with a lower POI at 25 yds. An example would be a 185 gr. bullet with a velocity of 900 fps would shoot lower groups than a 230 gr. bullet at 900 fps. The reason is called "muzzle jump." A heavier bullet imparts more recoil so the upward arc of movement of the barrel causes the bullet to leave at a slightly higher angle.....

 

[jjfitch]

POI vs. POA

To the O P.

Barrel time does affect POI. A lower velocity bulllet will impact higher than the same combination at higher velocity since the bullet trajectory raises as the barrel recoils upward.

Bullet trajectory must be tracked as it changes as to distance. It would not be out of the ordinary to expect a 4 inch deviation between extreme velocities at even 25 yards and 12 inches at 50 yards.

Yes you can expect a light target load to impact higher than the exact same weight bullet gun combination at combat velocities.

All the best,

 

[SOA1911]

Charles, I have to agree with what Trigger Creep said in post #4. I have found this to be so true--even more so while shooting rifles.