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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was at the Range Saturday with a friend who had just bought a Rock Island 1911 on-line that had been"upgraded". When he fired it , it would fire and chamber the next round but would not cock the hammer. I had him try different mags and on one of them it did cock the hammer on the 2nd round but not the third. I have never done more than field strip a 1911, so told my friend I would ask the experts. Thank you.
 

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So the hammer is following the slide as a new round is chambered?

As in - you are one step away from a full-auto pistol?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I had not thought of it that way but yes the hammer is following the slide and the one time it did fire the second round, it did sound like full auto and I ask him if that was the gun or did he fire and he said it was him. Now I am not so sure. Thanks for the reply.
 

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'Sounds a bit like a "Down-graded, Up-grade..."
It needs to be corrected by someone who knows 1911's as it is not correct/ safe as is.
 

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Please - take it to a GS pronto. This is not safe to fire like this.

Could be something as simple as a sear spring out of adjustment, or a broken or worn hammer/sear engagement.
 

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Armscor has some of the best CS in the business. Have your friend call them ASAP and get it sent back to them. They will fix the problem and likely thow in a few upgrades.
 

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No smith here and I have the receipts to show it but I have to wonder: Can the 1911 chamber a round without ever achieving over cock?
No, your suspicions are correct, it can't.The hammer is fully back in the first inch of slide travel. This type of follow is most likely either the hammer/sear engagement, or the left leaf is way too light. Also too much over travel can allow the bow to push the disconnector into the sear spring and lift it slightly.

LOG
 

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A follow up if I may log. Would it then be a true statement that the slide being retarded on its journey forward by the act of chambering is what is preventing the critical fail of the double or is some component saving the day?
 

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It's possible that the gun won't fire the next round if the hammer just follows the slide. This may not deliver enough force to overcome the inertial firing pin.

Did this guy have some trigger work done? It sounds like the disconnector is not working properly.
 

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A follow up if I may log. Would it then be a true statement that the slide being retarded on its journey forward by the act of chambering is what is preventing the critical fail of the double or is some component saving the day?
Well, the sear should hold the hammer as the slide finds battery, and the disconnector pops up in the recess. It isn't the disconnector's responsibility to hold the hammer in its engagement with the sear, that is what the left sear spring leaf should do, by maintaining pressure on the sear at all times during the cycle.

There are a number of possibilities. Since it has been worked on it may also have too little overtravel, making re-set short. I tuned one of my 1911s with a very short reset distance when gaining some understanding as to how to do that. I found the if reset is so short as to only require a slight relax of the trigger finger, doubling can result simply due to the pistol bump firing itself on your finger. Still alarming if you aren't expecting it or don't understand it. I do like a short reset, but found anything can go to far.

If the engagement is sub-minimal doubling will result, and increase with use, in this case the hammer is jarred loose when the slide and barrel stops against the slide stop pin.

As I mentioned some triggers will allow too much over travel with the screw backed out, and the bow, bearing on the disconnector will slightly lift the left leaf leaving the sear's engagement with the hammer subject to the engagement only. Bang.

LOG
 

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Thanks Log:

I am trying to gain a more complete understanding of these malfunctions in varying platforms with the surge in interest. I have had them happen in three platforms after work by folks that should have tested them but did not. I want to start a new website called nofelonyfiringpin dot com.:dope:
 

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So the hammer is following the slide as a new round is chambered?

As in - you are one step away from a full-auto pistol?
If the hammer is following the slide, it won't have enough energy to go full auto.

The hammer has to cock and then release as the slide goes into battery for the hammer to have enough energy to set off a primer.
 

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A symptom of a larger issue

My shop sees a great many "home" gunsmithing misadventures. They statistically are:
1) Entry level firearms
2) New owners to a particular platform (ARs and 1911s are the most common)
3) Without fail, the narrative from the Owner will include phrases such as, "a drop-in part", I watched a youtube video, I read how to do this on....( add whatever name you wish gun forum), it was really easy, and it's simple, all you have to do is........

Funny we rarely see this issue with Poly/striker guns, SA/DA guns, BHPs or Top End 1911s or AR. Well, we did have a Noveske Recce Rifle that the owner did a Trigger Job on.....
 

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If the hammer is following the slide, it won't have enough energy to go full auto.

The hammer has to cock and then release as the slide goes into battery for the hammer to have enough energy to set off a primer.
Unfortunately, this is incorrect. The inertia of the slide closing AND the hammer following may indeed be just enough to set off a round.
 

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My shop sees a great many "home" gunsmithing misadventures. They statistically are:
1) Entry level firearms
2) New owners to a particular platform (ARs and 1911s are the most common)
3) Without fail, the narrative from the Owner will include phrases such as, "a drop-in part", I watched a youtube video, I read how to do this on....( add whatever name you wish gun forum), it was really easy, and it's simple, all you have to do is........

Funny we rarely see this issue with Poly/striker guns, SA/DA guns, BHPs or Top End 1911s or AR. Well, we did have a Noveske Recce Rifle that the owner did a Trigger Job on.....
Thanks for the affirmation rocks.
 
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