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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hard to find ammo. Just want to pass it on to you guys.... ATG has Federal HST 45acp +P in stock right now. $39/box of 50, $379/case of 500.
 

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HST has a really wide ogive and can be finicky in 1911's. It has a tendency to trip the slide-lock causing premature lock-backs with rounds in the magazine. The slide-lock can be modified, but at the risk of taking off too much metal to permit lock-back on an empty mag. My Kimber CDP Pro II digests HST without a hiccup but I had to put an EGW slide stop on the gun to get there. The EGW part is machined from solid bar-stock and beautifully made. The cuts and tolerances are first rate.
 

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And it expands to nearly an inch in bare gelatin! Big hole!
 

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Glad I got several boxes for MUCH cheaper a while back :rock: Hope the prices come down, although if Federal cracks down on its distributors for selling LE ammo to civilians like Winchester did with their distributors, that may not be the case, for a while anyway. Good ammo, for sure, but definitely not worth that price (to me) when there are plenty of other quality brands out there for a decent price. Especially not the +P version, which I've seen jacket separation in firsthand...and because the +P beats the gun up more than necessary if you're going to practice with it enough to know it's reliable in your gun...and it affects follow-up shot timing as well. All just my 2 cents.
 

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Cops ARE civilians. And the real non-civilians (military) can't use hollowpoints in their duty handguns.

Some ammo sellers may adopt a policy where certain rounds are sold to "LE only", but others will provide those rounds to everyone.

It's all just hype, or for liability. Nonsense, truly.
 

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I was just going by Merriam-Webster's definition of a civilian, which excludes both military and law enforcement. And yeah, I imagine it's mostly just for liability in case some crazy gets ahold of their ammo so we don't have to have another "Black Talon" fiasco. Unfortunately, in addition to the already extant paucity of .45 ACP, if Federal and Winchester cut off supply to distributors who leak "LE only" ammo to non-LEOs like they seem to be doing...:bawling:
 

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At Des Moines, the local gun show that carried them listed a box for $50. And, they have sat there for some time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
We shooters are funny people. Top tier .45 defense ammo routinely sells for a $1 per round or better. Gold Dot's are 20/box at $24-$29 or so. The new PDX1 20/Box is running about $19-$22 or so. Even the Golden Saber is close to $1 a round. In many opinions the HST is top of the line defense ammo, yet we get all worked up when the price is $39/50. :confused: Granted, it's big jump from the $30 a box we've seen in the past, but it's still better per round pricing than many of the premium rounds on the commercial market. I'm not saying anyone is wrong for turning off at the current price, I just find it interesting. Everyone has their own personal threshold. A good study in conditioning I guess. If Federal had marketed this stuff in 20 round civilian packs right from the get-go, we wouldn't think twice about the current price.
 

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I was just going by Merriam-Webster's definition of a civilian, which excludes both military and law enforcement. And yeah, I imagine it's mostly just for liability in case some crazy gets ahold of their ammo so we don't have to have another "Black Talon" fiasco. Unfortunately, in addition to the already extant paucity of .45 ACP, if Federal and Winchester cut off supply to distributors who leak "LE only" ammo to non-LEOs like they seem to be doing...:bawling:
Well for me, having lived under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), not having my "civil" rights at the time, THAT is the dividing line for me.

Cops are not under UCMJ and are, in MY definition, most definitely civilians. When I was an Army soldier, I thought of cops as civilians. When we'd discuss actions we might someday be called on to perform in a national emergency, and the vast firepower superiority we would have compared to cops (even SWAT guys seemed lame to us, except those who had served in the military of course), and them not being in our chain of command in any way, and the image we had of fat, unfit, middle-aged cops compared to our young, fit selves, and with the attitude that the cops had best stay out of our way, my belief that they are civilians was all the more solidified. I will confess that I relished the idea of rolling down a street in my .50 cal equipped M577A3 Command Post Carrier, a long line of M1 Abrams tanks behind us, Cobra helicopters and A10 Warthogs accompanying us overhead, watching the boys in blue scramble to get out of our path as we rumbled down the street.

"Extant paucity"...I like that...
 

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I was just going by Merriam-Webster's definition of a civilian, which excludes both military and law enforcement.
Check an older dictionary and you won't find Law Enforcement listed, it's the new PC language. Civilian police are just that, civilians. They're not MP's.

Good, cuz I am.
To each their own. :D I saw 100rd value packs of .45acp 230gr. Remington JHPs at Walmart yesterday for $40.52. So if you include shipping the HST's will be more than double the price.

Looks like they got their Remington shipment in, because they were full stock of .22lr plated HP Golden Bullet 550rd value packs as well.

I didn't pick any up because I have more than enough of both calibers in Federal and Winchester already. The ammo pickings have been pretty good the past couples months especially.
 
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