Convince me as to why my statement needed editing . I am inclined to give DW my business, as I am a CZ fan, and we already have four Kimbers in the family, but I would like to read what any DW afficianados would like to contribute.
IHMO, the DW is a better piece of equipment. It lacks the unnecessary "lawyer safety"; the resurrected Shwartz firing pin safety (which Colt abandoned decades ago). Not only can this "safety" design actually make the gun LESS safe, as tolerance stacking or mfg. defects could potentially cause it to fail to release the firing pin, thus turning the gun into a hammer, but the safety is not a part of Browning's original design, which most 1911 afficianado's think of as near perfection.
Additionally, the new DW's all use a traditional, internal extractor, unlike the finicky, problem prone, external unit (which is unlike the DW external, BTW)used on most of the Kimbers. Just go over to the Kimber forum, and read of the problems others are experiencing.
Further, and to me this is a biggie, the DW uses significantly higher quality small parts than the Kimber. Most of the internal parts of the Kimber are manufactured via the Metal Injection Molding (MIM) process. This process is done because it yields parts which need little, if any, final finishing, and primarily is done because the parts are CHEAP to produce. Unfortunately, there is a down side; this being that MIM parts are often full of microscopic (up to visible size) porosity. This can yield a part that, while hard, can succomb to brittle fracture, and literally snap in half. No thank you. By contrast, Dan Wesson uses less MIM, and more high-quality, non-MIM name brand small parts, such as an Ed Brown slide release, Ed Brown grip safety, and STI thumb safety, to name a few.
Finally, the DW typically exhibits better fit and finish than the Kimbers. Slide to frame fit is hand-lapped and typically excellent. Barrel fit is tight. Slide flats are polished, unlike the Kimber 10mm's I've seen which were simply fully bead-blasted. Grip panels are checkered-double diamond rosewood, as opposed to molded rubber on the Kimber. All in all, I feel that the DW is just a nicer product for your money. Ken (yotehunter) and I did a side-by-side "fun test" using a Ransom Rest a few years back, comparing the two:
So Dave, I posted about a month ago that I am a Colt guy and really had no interest in Dan Wesson until I read about the CBOB 10mm. I am interested in getting one with the internal extractor. I haven't been able to find one anywhere. Any suggestions?? Thanks for any help or heads up. We can't buy them if we can't find them!
Guys, I haven't seen any in 10mm myself; only 45acp. Will do some more checking on Monday, and will also talk to the guys at DW, as I need to talk to them anyway. Snaggle: I see the price, but doubt they have them yet, as no image is yet available on their site.
I appreciate your well thought out reply. I consider the Schwartz safety a non-factor; I actually do not mind it on my Ultra Carry, as it gets carried in all manner of unconventional modes, although I carry my Colts in the same ways and do not worry about them.
The non-.45ACP Kimbers still have internal extractors, so again, this is a wash until such time as Kimber sees fit to adapt their "tactical" extractor to 10mm. At that time, I would consider the DW demonstrably superior in that department.
I have no complaints about the fit and finish of the four Kimbers we have in our family, and if anything, I consider the Ultra Carrys as too tight for their purpose. I would, however, consider a tight pistol a plus in a 5" 10mm.
Your point concerning the quality of small parts is valid, and I would rate that a strong point in favor of the DW.
Finally, Kimber advertises their 10mm pistols as having ramped barrels. I know that it is an often held belief that ramped barrels lend greater suppport to the case, and if so, I would consider this a plus with a cartridge like the 10mm.
Your input has been welcome, and it has given me additional food for thought.
Happy to help, Rush. Glad you consider at least one of my points valid. Regarding the Shwartz safety, many don't have a problem with it until it goes 'click', instead of 'bang'... I've seen a couple where the actuator strut (another MIM part) has snapped, as well. :bawling: Keep in mind that this system is completely different from the Colt system, which many non-purists can live with.
Regarding extractors, frankly, it is not a wash, until Kimber stops using MIM firing pin stops, which can crack in half, again rendering the gun useless!
Regarding the ramped barrel, it's important to remember that the 10mm case was designed to self-support internal stresses in excess of those generated by SAAMI max pressures. As such, many 10mm die-hards consider the tradition ramp to be an absolute non-issue in this caliber. There are several 10mm fanatics on this forum, who will likely agree with this. Further, you will likely find just as many folks who are somehow convinced that a ramped barrel chambered in 10mm is inherently less reliable, from a feed perspective. I happen not to share in that belief.
Bottom line, the Kimber is simply a more cheaply produced gun. It has a decent slide and frame, and the barrel is OK, but other than that... Sorry, but real guns don't have plastic mainspring housings!
I concur with the plastic perspective. That is why I have replaced those on my Kimbers, as well as those on my Colts. Regarding the ramped barrel, I have always preferred to stay fairly close to JMB's origninal design when possible, as it seems to work as well as any other. But, at the same time, I know that there exists a pressure difference between the .45 ACP and the 10mm, so that is what leads to my curiosity. Again, your input has been appreciated.
Maybe experience makes the reassembly of the 80 series and Kimber safety systems simpler, but to me it seemed to add unnecessary time and complexity to an otherwise easy task when taking apart the lower end. When your wife is yelling at you to come up from the basement, those extra few moments can seem like an eternity!