[GunNut]

I recently bought a Delta Elite from a guy on Gunbroker. I contacted my FFL and they sent him a copy of their FFL. I told him my FFL dealer would want a copy of his FFL when he shipped the gun.

I went to pick up the gun tonight and when they opened the box there was no FFL. There was a copy of his collectors license signed in ink. It also said "I am not a dealer" in his own handwritting. My dealer will not transfer the gun to me and they want him to supply them with an FFL dealers name and address to ship the gun back to him.

Are they being unreasonable or are they following the law?

Thanks,
GunNut

 

[Danny45]

Sounds to me like your dealer is following the law. It's a pain in the butt, but the dumba$$ should have used a dealer for the transfer. He'll be lucky if he doesn't have the DEA knocking on his door.

Speaking of which, I have a girlfriend that lives in another state. I bought a Taurus snubby, .357, compensated, for her. Can I just give it to her?? If I do, do I have to be in my home state? Or can I give it to her there? Or do I have to have it transferred?? I'm so confused!!!!

 

[EOD Guy]

Gunnut,

There is no Federal law or regulation that requires the sender to be a licensee. It sounds like your dealer is just trying to cover his rear end. The sender did not violate any BATF regulations. He should have checked with your FFL first though.

Danny45,

You cannot transfer a handgun to a resident of another state. It has to go through a dealer in her home state.

Rich

[This message has been edited by EOD Guy (edited 11-16-2001).]

 

[popeye]

Here's my take: Handguns need a ffl on both ends of an interstate sale. Rifles need an ffl on either the sending or recieveing end. But I know I can go across the state line and sell to an ffl holder legally. There's something about contiguous state sales in there also

 

[EOD Guy]

popeye,

No firearms need an FFL on the sending end. All firearms need an FFL on the receiving end. There are a few exceptions that allow the receipt of a firearm by a nonlicensee.

 

[Paten]

My dealer has received several guns for me from out of state sales. All that was required was that I sent my dealers FFL to the seller and they sent the gun directly to my dealer. My dealer performed the background check and received his transfer fee. That was it. Of course, that probably doesn't mean diddly to your dealer. Ask him what specific part of the law requires the gun to be shipped from an FFL holder? This is what I found at the ATF websites FAQ:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's own state?


A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]

Before he tries shipping it back, ask him to call the BATF to confirm what is needed before he wastes your time and money.

 

[blacklab]

I am a licensed dealer in New York State. Handguns MUST be sent BY a FFL holder TO another FFL holder when they are shpped for reason of sale or transfer. IF sent for repair or work, a non-licensee may ship the handgun to a licensed manufacturer or FFL holder and may in return get the gun shipped back to them directly. The bottom line on this is: If you're selling a handgun and you are an individual it MUST be sent BY one FFL to another-period. The dealer above is obeying the law. It is a crime for a dealer to receive a handgun from an un-authorized person. Not to mention then transfer it. It has to go back, however the dealer who has it now has to find a FFL to take it back. I myself would call BATF for clarification if it was me before I did ANYTHING.

I wanted to add. Long guns are a different animal as there are no special licensing provisions for long guns as there are for handguns hence a non-licensee may dispose of a long gun WITHOUT a FFL on the sending end. It still must be RECEIVED however by a FFL on the receiving end IF its an out of state transfer.



[This message has been edited by blacklab (edited 11-16-2001).]

 

[eerw]

I asked an FFL holder about transfering to another state..they said I would just need to send to an FFL and not need to go through their shop...I know I can send to an FFL for repairs and such..so what the real story....

 

[Guest]

Blacklab,

Just curious, does this apply for in-state sales? My understanding, at least here in Virginia, is that it isn't necessary to go through an FFL if the sale is within the state.
Dennis D. Carter

 

[Paten]

Originally posted by blacklab:
I am a licensed dealer in New York State. Handguns MUST be sent BY a FFL holder TO another FFL holder when they are shpped for reason of sale or transfer.

Blacklab,

Is this a state requirement? It doesn't say that it must be sent from an FFL holder to an FFL holder on the ATF site. Only that an FFL holder must receive it. As I said, I have received firearms using this method here in Florida.

 

[EOD Guy]

blacklab,

You are wrong as far as Federal regulations are concerned. New York may have a law requiring receipt from an FFL, but the Feds don't.

See (B9) on page 136 of the "Green Book".

"A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any State."

[This message has been edited by EOD Guy (edited 11-16-2001).]

 

[blacklab]

Originally posted by Dennis D. Carter:
Blacklab,

Just curious, does this apply for in-state sales? My understanding, at least here in Virginia, is that it isn't necessary to go through an FFL if the sale is within the state.
Dennis D. Carter

You are correct. Instate person to person, at least here in NY is ok WITH a valid purchase coupon which is a requirement in this state.

 

[blacklab]

Originally posted by Paten:
Blacklab,

Is this a state requirement? It doesn't say that it must be sent from an FFL holder to an FFL holder on the ATF site. Only that an FFL holder must receive it. As I said, I have received firearms using this method here in Florida.

It is a state requirement in NYS. I cannot receive a handgun into my inventory or facilitate a transfer from a non-licensee. I can receive a long gun but not handguns.

 

[popeye]

The FFL/FFL transfer must be a reciprical law deal between Indiana/Illinios. I've never been able to buy a handgun across the line without 2 FFL'S. Misinformed again. I'll never be a lawyer.

 

[wishbone]

THE FFL that ships a gun to another FFL only needs to confirm that the receiving FFL is a legitimate FFL.A private party may ship a gun to a legitimate FFL. A gun wholesaler, or distributor,needs only to get ONE signed FFL copy( for conformation) in order to ship as many guns,and as many times as he wants. IT is up to the FFL that is not dealing with another FFL, to use the instant check for all other transfers..

 

[GunNut]

Thanks for all of your input. Although I am somewhat confused now. I will be sure to let you all know how it turns out. I just want my Delta Elite.

GunNut

 

[FirearmsPlus.FL]

While federal law allows transfer from a non-FFL to an FFL, we only recieve guns from FFL's.

We feel that verifying the identity of who we get it from is safer with an FFL.

The dealer can legally ship the gun back to where he recieved it from if he doesn't want to accept it.

Of course, the guy should have told you he's not an FFL from teh start.

 

[EOD Guy]

I think dealers are being paranoid when they insist on shipment from another dealer even though there are a lot of ways to establish identity. However, it is their license they are trying to protect and I won't argue about it. I do agree that you should check before shipping.

 

[popeye]

A friend of mine owns a small gun shop. Been in business 20+ years. He told me visits from ATF now border on harassment.
Many FFL holders (without store front) around hear have given up and turned in license due to ATF visits.
If gun sales were my livelyhood I would certainly be carefull.

 

[johnwill]

I have purchased a number of modern guns from out of state non-license sellers. In virtually all cases, they just packed up the gun and shipped it to my FFL locally. Perfectly legal, and the cheapest method.

I have a C&R, and I regularly receive C&R handguns from unlicensed folks from all over the country, also prefectly legal. While an FFL may elect not to receive out of state shipments from anyone but another FFL, there is NO federal law that limits him in this way.