[HarryO45]

Situation:

I live in the country. Remote for the Sheriff.

Within 14 months my county has had two home invasion style attacks. In both cases people died. details are sketchy - but unofficially; In both cases, the fights started in the house onto the front porches and ended up in the driveways / outdoors. Some bad guys stayed outside the house and shot into the house. Both sides were druggies (for what that is worth / no surprise).

from either structure I can see down my driveway about 70 yards and its total length is about 500 yards, wooded and natural drainage valleys, hilly only navigable by foot other than the drive.

I have a detached, over the garage, studio apartment about 35 yards from my main house. Guests like to stay there. Often they are my family.

Thoughts

I was reading another topic on the forum and folks where saying best course of action if someone comes in your house is to stay in the bedroom and call 911. Wait for the police.

I am not saying that is bad advice for some, but for me it might not work...if someone is doing bad things to a family member outside your main house... this is completely different - i have not seen this discussed on this forum.

I am not a involved in a criminal enterprise, so me thinks this scenario is unlikely...but the bad guys are real and it is their MO.

Question...

Is there ever a reason to be more offensive in the defense of your loved ones? What to consider if you decide to help family in a detached building on your property. Wondering what you guys thought?

 

[USMM guy]

There are a lot of what ifs here Harry.

Are your guests people that can defend themselves?
How secure is the apartment, easy to break into or not so much?
Is the access to the apartment visible to you from your house?
Do you have dogs?

It is hard to really make an assessment without further information.

One thing that comes to mind though with your situation with the long driveway. I would definitely get a driveway alarm. You might also harden up the door to the apartment, maybe a fence and some cameras. You can do a lot depending on how much money you want to spend. A couple of years ago I hardened up the door to my bedroom considerably.

 

[HarryO45]

I agree - Lets narrow the focus...

It is hard to really make an assessment without further information.

Thank you for the questions, i appreciate your (above) detailed approach.

I am NOT really looking for ways / strategies to improve my surveillance, alarms, or security. I appreciate the offer of an assessment. ...I agree too much info, with all those details (I am leaving lots out - deliberately - way too many considerations).

I am hoping to keep the topic on:

Question...
Is there ever a reason to be more offensive in the defense of your loved ones? What to consider if you decide to help family in a detached building on your property. Wondering what you guys thought?

What conditions would exist for you to decide to go outside to help others? maybe some here will say never do it? Maybe some will offer strategies if I decide to go...

 

[USMM guy]

OK this helps a bit

I am hoping to keep the topic on:

What conditions would exist for you to decide to go outside to help others? maybe some here will say never do it? Maybe some will offer strategies if I decide to go...

If I am in a position on my own property. Where I see people that I know and presumably care about coming into harms way. Or even innocent people that I might not necessarily even know. I will do whatever I think that the situation requires to neutralize any and all aggression by outside parties. I think that as a property owner I have a certain responsibility to provide a measure of safety to those that I allow on it.

Circumstances will of course dictate the level of response. Rowdy/possibly intoxicated people just making a fuss is one thing. Thugs clearly intent on causing bodily harm is another. But good, bad or otherwise. My general inclination is not to stand by and let other people that are clearly innocent of any wrongdoing come to harm. Now I will point out, as I am sure that subsequent posters will also be quick to do. That things are not always as they seem. One has to be very careful to make sure of what you are dealing with.

 

[557]

Better not ask me I’m the guy that will run out to the quonset in my boxers to make sure someone isn’t stealing my tools...

 

[jjfitch]

The general definition of the use of deadly force in the western US:

"You my use only that force necessary to eliminate the threat of death or bodily harm to yourself or another person."

Things that must be considered: Ability, to do harm, weapon?
Opportunity, to do harm, seperation?
Jeopardy, was a life in danger?

It is always best to have this discussion with a representative from your local DA's office.

The local culture and political climate where you live all play a part in what may be OK there and opposite somewhere else.

Google: "What every gun owner needs to know about self defense law"

(Using deadly force to protect property may be the worst day of your life!)

All the best,

 

[Andyk]

Does your state have a castle doctrine law? Are you old or infirmed in any way so there would be a disparity of force? Things to consider.

 

[f1racefan]

Yep, first acquaint yourself with your state's defensive force laws. Kentucky, where I live, says you can use your weapon to defend the lives of others. Your state may or may not have a similar law on the books.

I've thought a lot about when I would use my weapon to defend myself and/or others. For me, if I feel the situation is such that myself, my loved ones, or innocents around me may not survive to live tomorrow, then I will draw and use my weapon to stop the attacker(s). As an example, if I were involved in a robbery and the robber was calm, wasn't physically assaulting innocents, or holding a gun to their head, I'd probably let them rob the place. However, if it appears they're more unhinged, slapping people around, and generally appearing like they have no problem hurting or killing someone, then I'm going to do my best to wait til they're not looking my way, then I'm drawing and engaging. It's important to remember that people are always much more likely to survive an event where no bullets are flying around. Because when they do, who fired them has no bearing on whether they hit and potentially kill innocents.

For you, being rural, it sounds like something like an AR is in order, if you don't already have one. I love pistols, but at distances over 25 yards, it's probably better to defend with a rifle, plus you get the higher capacity. I know you're seeking advice here, but in the end, you'll have to think through the scenarios that might occur and determine how you would defend and how far you'd go. But being remote, you better remember that law enforcement will probably not be involved in the ultimate outcome of who might die. That will most likely be in the hands of your attackers and you. I personally refuse to be a sheepish victim.

 

[Telum Pisces]

I'll do what I think I need to do to protect myself and my family based on what I decide is best! I'll deal with the aftermath afterwards!

This does not imply anything that your minds will come up with. Just means that I have plans and then things simply happen and you have to go on the fly based on what you know and what you think is best. Only you can know what's best to defend yourself and your family.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

 

[Huevos]

Let me start by saying that I live in Idaho and all our state laws aren't directed at protecting criminals. With that said; When I got my CCP the class instructor went over self defense as opposed to defending someone else. We all have the right to self defense but we are not law enforcement. Self defense is exactly that, defending yourself, not someone else and it doesn't matter if you're on your own property or not. Of course, if you're on the other guys property it could get sticky. But you have the right to defend yourself if you fear for your life, period. As far as protecting someone else you're taking your chances. He went through a scenario where you're in a convenience store and an armed robber comes in and you're convinced he is going to shoot the clerk. You pull your gun and shoot the bad guy, you could be charged with murder. If the robber see's you pull your gun and turns and shoots you, he'll probably get off with self defense and the security cameras will show that you pulled on him first while not being threatened. Now if he shot the clerk and maybe some other customers then it would be reasonable to assume that he would eventually get to you and you can claim self defense. OK, if you're still with me, after he went through the scenarios with the class someone asked him "what if the clerk was your son?" To that he answered "I'd shoot the guy and take my chances in court."

 

[toofew1911s]

Laws do definitely vary from state to state but the rule of thumb on shooting to defend someone other than yourself; if the person, had they been armed, would have been justified in pulling a weapon and shooting the 3rd person themselves it would most often be considered a legal shooting.

But how can you be sure the the intended victim was justified? You very seldom have all the facts. That is why it is a can of worms.

 

[The War Wagon]

If the Sheriff says, they're "too busy - no cars available," tell 'em "NO problem - I just shot 'em all."


5 minutes later, when a DOZEN squad cars roll up, and the Sgt says - "I thought you said you shot 'em all," you can reply - "And I thought you said, you were 'TOO busy' - no cars were available."

 

[L84CABO]

Question...

Is there ever a reason to be more offensive in the defense of your loved ones? What to consider if you decide to help family in a detached building on your property. Wondering what you guys thought?

It seems prudent to me that if you identify unsavory characters who are armed and approaching your house, that it would be better to deal with them offensively BEFORE they get to your house.

Helping family members in a detached building is a pretty bad situation. There are likely numerous ways they could end up dead. You're going to have to decide the best course of action at the time. Obviously if it appears that they're about to be killed, you will need to act. However, if it appears that they are only going to be roughed up a bit, it may be better to sit it out and either wait for them to leave or to get some distance between the family and the bad guys and then put rounds on target.

If you are truly concerned about this, I would likely be focusing on what I could do from a security standpoint that would alert you when they first come onto the property so that you can deal with them at distance instead of up close and personal. Threat assessment is obviously key here. You obviously don't want to be putting rounds on the neighbor who was just coming over to borrow something.

 

[Markbailey]

This seems obvious to me. Of course you engage an assailant on your property if they are threatening your family. Heck if someone is threatening my dog they are going to be in harms way, much less my family. The concept of bunkering in your home and awaiting the police is fine, as long as everything you love is safely in there with you and you can hold that ground. If not, honestly, what option do you have but to engage?

 

[USMM guy]

This is actually a really good tactic to use.

If the Sheriff says, they're "too busy - no cars available," tell 'em "NO problem - I just shot 'em all."


5 minutes later, when a DOZEN squad cars roll up, and the Sgt says - "I thought you said you shot 'em all," you can reply - "And I thought you said, you were 'TOO busy' - no cars were available."

Under the right circumstances, it can work well. A few years ago a neighbor of mine confronted a bunch of poachers on his property. He called in to the Sherriff's office on them and their response was that they did not have anyone to send out. So he told them to send out an ambulance instead. This got the response that he was originally looking for.

 

[combat auto]

There certainly could be reasons to go on the offensive in your house. Say your child is in the other room for example. Or if staying in-place will cause more risk than moving. The one size fits all, party-line that comes out of the so called-tacti-pro-schools, "hide in your bedroom with your SG, leave it to the professional's", might be a desired approach in a perfect world, but in some situations, can be as stupid as just hiding under the desk in a school mass-shooting.

Outside the home that is if you are in home and thug(s) are outside, the dynamic changes dramatically. 1st, the laws usually are different as far as SD (especially in lefty state) outside the home, 2nd, you are at less imminent risk if you are in and he is out (this of course can quickly change), 3rd, if you leave the relative safety of the home, you raise your risk profile dramatically. Again, unless you egress to save a loved one, I would not do it. I would use the barrier of the house, and if partially breached, door, window, etc., and you have identified your target, you have an appropriate-opportunity to act in SD - tactically, ethically, and legally.

 

[STORM2]

So much for civilians knowing where the home of the Infantry is. The location of the OP refers to Fort Benning, GA. It is a Castle State and I’m pretty sure the bad guys ain’t getting in his house. Bad guys don’t do well with military minded jurors. Folks sometime just go missing.

 

[Cappi]

This seems obvious to me. Of course you engage an assailant on your property if they are threatening your family.

The concept of bunkering in your home and awaiting the police is fine, as long as everything you love is safely in there with you and you can hold that ground. If not, honestly, what option do you have but to engage?

^^this is how I see it^^


I don't think anyone on the other thread suggested "never" moving.
Only that it's a genuine serious risk and is most prudent NOT to if one has no need to


..................................................................................................

starting with the premise that those you're defending are justified in using deadly force according to your local/state laws.....

Your scenario differs a bit in distance and area to cover
(and the more challenges it may present, as CA noted)

but "to me" it's no different than a master bd rm on main floor and kids rooms up stairs.
Now "you gotta go" to secure loved ones
..a genuine need to move .


Be it 35 ft or 35 yards doesn't really matter as I see it.
Nor whether it's on your property or at the city park for that matter

it you have to, you have to...period


..L.T.A.

 

[Plantar5]

Situation:

I live in the country. Remote for the Sheriff.

Within 14 months my county has had two home invasion style attacks. In both cases people died.

I have a detached, over the garage, studio apartment about 35 yards from my main house. Guests like to stay there. Often they are my family.

Question...

Is there ever a reason to be more offensive in the defense of your loved ones? What to consider if you decide to help family in a detached building on your property. Wondering what you guys thought?

Your guest quarters , are an extension of your home, imho.
Therefore, I would think you would be justified in using whatever the situation legally called for, up to and including lethal force.
Presuming you wouldn't stay put in the main house and wait for LE.

 

[557]

WWWD?

“We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender”

I don’t think there is really a right or wrong answer. Probably “it depends” is most accurate. It’s your property, you know it best so can probably come up with good plans to fit different scenarios.

One big thing would be communication with those in the guest house. Some reliable way of communication so you know if you need to stay put, get to the guest house stealthily, or rush down there if something does happen. Just an idea.

I personally would sure err on the side of protection of those I love. I’d rather go to jail than see them harmed.

Make sure your property is well posted with no trespassing signs etc. That has weight in courts of law in rural areas.