[Lovegasoline]

I live in NYC and I just received my shotgun/rifle permit. My pistol permit is still pending: my first purchase will be a shotgun. ...this will be the first shotgun I have owned.
I've been reading through many posts over the last few months and have considered what I'd like in a shotgun: however, there are some areas of shotgunning that remain completely unknown to me and I'd benefit from a little illumination.
The initial impetus for the shotgun and it's PRIMARY FUNCTION is as a home defense weapon (let me restate that: APARTMENT defense weapon). Of course, cost, durability, & reliability is a concern. The Mossberg #590 series (12 gauge, pump, 9 shot, 20" barrel) is what I have been leaning towards, standard synthetic stock, Parkerized...(I'm also interested in the aftermarket Compstock compensator stock to ease the kick on my torn shoulder cartiledge). Initially I was thinking a bead site would be more versatile by allowing for swapping barrels as well as adapting more readily to a variety of sporting shotgunning. However, I 've just learned that Mossberg doesn't appear to offer interchangable barrels for the 590 series. Because of the #590's 9 shot capacity, there is no barrel interchangability with the #500 series shotguns ... so sticking a longer 24" or 28" barrel on the #590 is not an option.
Here is my situation. I'd like to indulge myself in enjoying shooting my HD shotgun but I'm out of touch with what the demands are placed on shotguns for more specialized applications. Other than just freelance blasting, I'd like to try out shooting clays; and although I know absolutely nothing about it, 3-gun competition sounds really fun too. I'm not intending to commit to being a hard core competitor, but rather to just modestly enjoy embracing the challanges that these varoius types of shotgunning can yield.
Would the model #590, 12 gauge pump, 9 shot, 20" barrel, bead site shotgun allow me to enjoy a variety of shotgunning as well as serving its prime duty as a HD weapon?
Opinions or advice? Thanks a bunch.

 

[hjk]

IMHO nothing out there compares to the Remington 870 for value, versatility and reliability. There are many different barrels and changing barrels is a snap. The 870 Express series is the most economical of the line and does everything as well as the Wingmaster series. You mentioned that you intend to use your shotgun for home defense in an apartment. If you have not already done so, research this thoroughly. The major risk is shot penetration into an adjoining apartment. Therefore, you would want to know how your walls are constructed and select a defense load that won't overpenetrate (possibly a light birdshot load since you would be dealing with short distances). The last apartment I lived in was not a suitable environment for the use of a shotgun for self defense. If you are not totally familiar with a pump shotgun, practice loading and unloading with snap caps or dummy rounds. Good luck with your purchase.

 

[dfariswheel]

Another vote for the Remington 870.
NO shotgun is more versatile than the 870. There are many people who use one 870 for a wide range of sporting and HD tasks.

All that's needed is a quick change in barrels, and the same gun works for home defense, deer hunting, clay birds, real birds, three gun action shooting, anti-shark boat gun, plinker, and anything else you can think of.

NO shotgun has more accessories offered for it, nor has a better reputation for reliability or durability.

You could use the Mossberg for other things than HD, but you won't do well at all, due to the need for different chokes for different "games".
That's where the Remington shines. Usually you only need two 870 barrels: One short 18"-20" open choke HD barrel and your choice of 25"-28" barrel with Rem-Choke changeable choke tubes.

To change "the game", you need only to screw in a different choke.

So, your HD gun would have a short barrel on it. To go clay birding, you put on the longer barrel, and select whatever choke is correct for the type of clays you're shooting.
To do other types of shooting, would require only a quick change of choke tube.
The Mossberg 590 simple isn't capable of this adaptability.

 

[NJKimberSS]

The mossberg 590 marine is the only shotgun ill ever entrust my life to. Great all around shotgun, and Patterns BEUTIFULLY at about 15 yards...great for defence. The gun is 100% reliable, can easily shoot the Aquila Super short slugs (something about 9+1 slugs ) and is accurate out to about 75 yards with slugs. For a defensive shotgun it cannot be beat. The Compstock is a lifesaver for rapid fire with a 12ga. You can shoot cloverleafs at 15 rapid fire with the mossberg, it eats up alot of the recoil and makes it super easy to bring the gun back on target. And with full house OOO buckshot...feels like your shooting practice loads.

For a sporting gun the 870 is better...but from my experience isnt reliable enough for home defence (we had a 870 that just didnt work...got it fixed, traded it in for the 590), and the longer barrels make it harder to manuver. Given there are interchangable barrels, but that doesnt take careof the rather poor IMO safety placement. The 590 is very easy to see if safe is on or off, and the tang mounted safety is easier to turn off in a hurry. Also if you need to clear a jam, its easier (once again IMO) to do so in the mossberg than the 870...

to prevent flaming...which some people love to do...this is all IMO and YMMV.

 

[Theophorus]

Go to www.wilsoncombat.com, and check out their 870 scatterguns. I have this strange longing for the 14" Border Patrol model. Then start searching for a dealer who can knock a couple bills off of srp.

Theo

 

[moorerwc]

avoid my mistake

All the experts that I have read recommend the Remington 870. Do a search over at tacticalforums.com

I bought the 870 express with 26" barrel as my first shotgun hoping to get the Home Defense barrel later. Only now do I know how hard it is to get the factory 18" HD barrel. I suggest buying the short barrel 870 first and then adding barrels. Remington offers both the Marine Magnum with nickle teflon finish and an express HD model with the factory magazine extension (the one with the extension is not a catalogued model but you can find the model number by searching the web and thefiringline.com). I suggest these because the factory mag extensions are so hard to find when not an LEO and these models do not have the unnecessary mag. dimples. Unfortunately these guns also have the new itegral lock (apparently this has been known to lock in place under recoil). If you have the money and a dealer willing to order you one, look for a police magnum; they apparently have better internal polish and extra quality control--basically a Wingmaster with no integral lock, gold trigger, or mag dimples and a shorter forend (easier to mount a sidesaddle). I plan on trading my express in on one soon.

-Chad

 

[Rrotz]

I got my first shotgun 2 months ago. Got a Norinko 97 Trenchgun. What a fun gun!

 

[Emily W Trott]

Dear Lovegasoline,

I think that I've found exactly what you are looking for, at a great price. It's a Mossberg 500 combo with 28" field barrel and an 18 1/2" barrel for defense. Check out #54169 at http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/model500_1.htm Remington offers combos as well and you can check them out at http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870excmb.htm

If you plan to use buckshot or rifled slugs in your gun you'll want to avoid getting a short barrel which is rifled. These barrels are designed for the saboted slugs and not the solid lead ones. I also would not worry much either about the short barrel having rifle type sights. You won't need them for any short range shotgun work. What you will need however is practive in hitting your target. Stay safe, Gary

*edited to add: I'd also suggest that you have a good recoil pad like a Kickeez installed on your new shotgun. Due to their light weight pumpguns do kick quite a bit.*

 

[Tomac]

I've owned Remingtons, Mossys & 'Chesters and they all have their good/bad points. For HD right out of the box I like the Mossy 590 series (primarily due to location of the safety and that the shell carrier stays up most of the time making reloads faster/easier for me) but the Remington HD isn't bad either. See if you can find examples to handle locally and find out which appeals/feels better to you. I prefer a bead sight on my HD shotguns because I can pick up a Meprolight tritium bead for $30 that makes lowlight aiming more certain. For a real beater/budget shotgun here's the Norinco 982 (Remingtion 870 clone that so far has taken every 870 part/accessory I've tried), going for $140 w/bead sight at CDNN, $150 w/ghostring sight.
Tomac:

 

[AAshooter]

www.vangcomp.com

 

[hjk]

Anyone looking for an 870 18" cyl. bore barrel might want to check out Centerfire Systems (www.centerfiresystems.com; 800-950-1231). Remington factory barrel with Trijicon front sight for $89.97. I recently bought two with block front sights with Trijicon inserts. I installed and tested one with some Win. Ranger 00 Tactical, and it patterned very well. Don't know what they have left in stock.

 

[Sistema1927]

I live in NYC and I just received my shotgun/rifle permit. My pistol permit is still pending

If those aren't scary words, I don't know what are.

My sympathies to you that you live in a place that infringes your rights.

 

[Les Snyder]

hunting season around the corner, and the discount stores have "Turkey gun" ..Rem 870's with synthetic stocks, 21/22inch vent rib RemChoke barrels, for under $300...hell of a deal... regards Les

 

[Lovegasoline]

Lots of good input here, thanks for all the advice guys.
Some follow-ups:

HJK: yes, I'll need to research loads to find a suitable candidate. Fortunately I'm in a pre-WWII building with plaster and wood lathing, a little more substantial than plasterboard. Snap-caps are also a good idea.

NJKimberSS: Aquila Super short slugs? What are you using these for and what is their benefit for your application? I've read with enthusiasm your previous posts regarding the Compstock and it sounds ideal for someone with shoulder injuries such as myself.

Gary: Thanks for the links. The combo's seem like a good way to go...I'd like to have as large a cartridge capacity as possible: perhaps a Moss 500 in 8+1 configuration w/20" barrel, and an additional 28" ventilated rib/ported/accuset barrel for sporting usage. I'll do a bit more research. Also, thanks for the smoothbore head's up.

Tomac: Any reliability/function issues with your Norinco 982? The price certainly is appealing: what/where is CDNN?
Anyone else have first hand experience with the Norinco?

I have a catalog from Wilson Combat and as much as I covet their Scatterguns (and their 1911s even more!) the price is just too far outside my current budget.
I will take a look at the standard issue #870s however ... it probably is best to shoulder the various shotguns to get some firsthand ergonomic feedback.
Maybe the Mossy #590 is a little too specialized (...or, perhaps if I owned one, I'd just need to focus on mastering it and shooting it within its limitations...another possibility).

Sistema1927: Yes it's scary.
I just returned from a climbing trip out West, 6 uninterrupted weeks of sleeping outside under the stars in raw nature (CA, Utah, Nevada, Colorado). Return home at the airport was scary and disorienting: standing numbly in line, dull irritated faces,advertising trying to sell me crap I have no need for and filing my head with rubbish, TVs churning, my luggage dismantled and searched which caused me to miss my flight...all in the first hour alone! Bureaucracy is a scary over-arching bitch.....and that wasn't even NYC!
In Colorado I malingered and handled many weapons in a gun store and the owner was helpful and hospitable. In a NYC gun store this week, I was told by the proprietor that I could not even TOUCH a weapon without having my permit physically on my person. I left without touching anything. Scary.

Cheers all.

 

[NJKimberSS]

NJKimberSS: Aquila Super short slugs? What are you using these for and what is their benefit for your application? I've read with enthusiasm your previous posts regarding the Compstock and it sounds ideal for someone with shoulder injuries such as myself.

Definantly get the compstock...as to the super short slugs...as you know about half the shot gun shell is empty when using slugs in a shotgun. taken up with the wad. What aquila did was remove the wad and shorten the shell. therefor its about half as long over all as a "normal" slug shell. That way in a gun that used to hold 5 shells...it can now hold 9. its great for defence since they are full power shells, but you have nearly twice as many (you never know...since everyones all about extended mag tubes)

i know how you feel with the permits. Luckily in NJ we dont need one for shotgun or rifle. But we have to wait about a month for the handgun permit paperwork to go through. I cant stand it, i plan to move to PA where i can carry and get any gun i want without having to wait...plus i could finanlly silence my 10/22:biglaugh:

 

[MiniZ]

Lovegasoline: Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but here is an observation...

You mentioned in a previous post the possibility of getting an 8+1 500 and getting an additional 28" barrel for sporting purposes. I don't think this is going to work. Unlike an 870, which uses an extension on the mag tube to get higher capacity, the 500/590 use a longer one peice mag tube on the 8+1 capacity models. To change to a different barrel, you would actually also need a "standard" mag tube.

If this shotgun will do double duty, you may want to consider an 870. You can get an extension for higher capacity, but still have the capability of putting a longer barrel on for sporting purposes.

 

[NJKimberSS]

Lovegasoline: Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but here is an observation...

You mentioned in a previous post the possibility of getting an 8+1 500 and getting an additional 28" barrel for sporting purposes. I don't think this is going to work. Unlike an 870, which uses an extension on the mag tube to get higher capacity, the 500/590 use a longer one peice mag tube on the 8+1 capacity models. To change to a different barrel, you would actually also need a "standard" mag tube.

If this shotgun will do double duty, you may want to consider an 870. You can get an extension for higher capacity, but still have the capability of putting a longer barrel on for sporting purposes.

close...IIRC the 590 uses the longer tube, but the 500 does not...thats why different length barrels are redily avail for 500's but not the 590's...

But he want primarily defence...in that case short barrels rule.

 

[Tomac]

Lovegasoline, I have about 300+ slugs, 00 buck & heavy field loads through my 982 so far and the only problem has been the screws on the ghostring sights loosening from the heavy recoil (easily fixed w/Loctite). Here's CDNN's website, you'll have to download their current catalog and go to page 10 to see the Hawk & Norinco shotguns: http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ . I have both a Hawk and a Norinco and except for the markings they appear identical. If you're worried about parts quality then CDNN also sells near-new (looks brand new to me) parkerized 870 bolts complete w/firing pin and extractor for $15 (btw, it fits/works perfectly). The Hawk/Norincos are a little crude but so far for me they've functioned perfectly as a budget/beater HD shotgun. HTH, let me know if you have any other questions...
Tomac

 

[Rob96]

I had a Mossberg but love my Remington 870 Express HD. I did two mods to it. I put on an ATI pistol gripped buttstock and added a 6 round TacStar sidesaddle. Great Home Defense shotgun. Came from the factory with a +2 extension on it.

 

[Lovegasoline]

Re: avoid my mistake

I suggest these because the factory mag extensions are so hard to find when not an LEO and these models do not have the unnecessary mag. dimples. Unfortunately these guns also have the new itegral lock (apparently this has been known to lock in place under recoil).
-Chad

Can someone please elaborate on this 'integral lock' feature on new model 870's? An 870 Express 12 guage with extended magazine (model #5077) is one of the guns that has made the cut into my final elimination round. However, if it has some uneeded 'safety' feature that makes it less somewhat reliable, I'll pass on it.
Thanks.