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Discussion Starter #1
I've got a SF commander on order and have a quick question for you guys about the fixed sight information on the EB website.

The website states: Ed Brown handguns with fixed sights are set to impact 3" high at 25 yards. This allows center hits on a standard 6" bullseye using a 6:00 hold, which is the preferred sight picture of professional shooters. The 6:00 hold is described as balancing the bullseye on top of your aligned sight picture. The primary advantages of the 6:00 hold is that it is more consistent and precise, and the sights do not cover up the target. This same setup allows "dead-on" hits at 50 yards with the 45 ACP.

I'm new to a lot of this so please forgive me if these are too remedial:

Does this mean that I'll need to aim high if my target is 25 yards or less or does it mean that if I cover my target with the sights if it's less than 25 yards then I'll hit center?

I'm not planning on shooting anything greater than 25 yards away in a self defense application - should I request that these be zeroed in at 25 yards?

Thanks in advance for your help.

twomarks
 

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I asked the same question a few weeks ago. My new SF

shoots as described on the web site. I talked to Ed Brown and to Novacks, who supplies the sights to Ed Brown. Novacks said you'd need a 2.1 instead of the 1.8 supplied on your SF by Ed Brown if you want center hits/center hold at 25 yards.

I'm really surprised that Ed Brown uses a 6'oclock hold on their defensive pistols as there is NOT a defensive school in the county that I know teaches a Bullseye or 6'oclock hold. In defensive situations you put your front sight where you want the bullet to go and press the trigger. At MOST combat distances, 7 yards or closer, even with the exsisting Ed Brown sights, you just put your front sight center of mass and press. In 7 yards the bullet will not really rise enough to make a difference.

I would prefer that Ed Brown used at 2.1 sight or even something in between so that at 25 yards you'd be only 1 1/2" off instead of 3". In combat situations, being within 1 1/2" at 25 yards would be acceptable as you don't have unlimted time to aim and shoot as you do in "Bullseye" shooting, ie 3 shots in 3 minutes or what ever......

The way things are now, you hold UNDER the bullseye or at what you are aiming at, AIM LOW as the bullet will hit high. At 25 yards they'll hit 3" UP from your holding position, 12 1/2 yards about 1 1/2 " high, 7 yards about 3/4" high.
 

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Not a lot of perps running around with 6 inch bullseye on them....:biglaugh:

There has got to be a better rationale in there somewhere.. A buddy had a Baer 45 built about 15 years ago. That sucker shot a foot low at 10 yards... After a lot of name calling Baer fixed it....
 

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It is a standard way to get precise hits, at 25 yards, and still see what you are looking at since at 25 yards you could easily cover your threat completely. Read this as move, or do something you need to see.

I require all my pistols to shoot at 6 o'clock hold at 25yds/75'

To the original poster, the hold described is line up your sites, and then balance the X-ring right on top. Hence 6 o'clock hold as in 6 on a clock face.

Regards,
Greyson
 

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But not all competitors use the 6 o'clock hold. I didn't when competing in NRA Bullseye matches and still don't for personal target shooting. My preference is for the bullet to impact exactly at the top of front sight when sights are aligned properly.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Just to clarify then - at the EB settings, if I set my target at the 6:00 hold, I'll hit where at 25 yards?

Thanks,

II
 

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I guess the sight picture preference will be different for those whose background is competitive shooting v. those who shoot combat and/or real life carry. I was trained for (real life) combat holds and kept my sights covering the target. At the same time I shot PPC, so matched my sights to what I used every day (I didn’t want to establish two different sets of habits that might create that split second hesitation in a real life situation).

There’s nothing wrong with either opinion, but once you establish which hold you will use, never vary. The way you practice is the way you will react when under stress. What I’m surprised at is that the makers don’t offer the optional front posts, as they are dovetailed in and easily exchanged, and would allow the individual to set his sights for the picture and distances he wants.
 

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Two lifetimes ago while shooting high master scores and playing with the All National Guard Shooting team I was told by the old heads that I would never shoot as well with a center hold (point of aim) as I would with a 6 o'clock hold. This is pretty much accepted as fact in bullseye. At that specific match I fired the second highest score fired in the exclusively iron sight match (service pistol). :)
Just think of what I could have done with a 6 o'clock hold :biglaugh:
I never changed to 6 o'clock... Don't like it. Never will....
My custom guns are built to shoot point of aim. That is part of what makes a true "custom" gun..:rock:
 

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My Kobra Carry shoots point of aim. Right out of the box.

Shoot yours before worrying about 6 o'clock holds. You have maybe one second to put a bullet center of mass. Best available sight picture.

-- Chuck
 

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The main problem with this thread is most people are assuming that when someone says, "I use 6 o'clock hold" they mean all of the time at all ranges.

Obviously I want to cover my target (center mass) at combat ranges, especially if I am on the move. But with a 6 o'clock hold right across the center of a face, I make head shots at 25 yards every time.

Not that I want, or need, to make head-shots at 75'. But it is nice to know I can dial in where my bullet will land should the need arise.

At 10 yards, I can shoot the x out of a target by adjusting my sights right across the x or adjust a little below.

Regards,
Greyson
 

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Assuming that everything is as advertised:
The gun is zeroed for a 6 o'clock hold on a 6 inch bullseye at 25 yards, that is, point of impact is 3" above the point of aim with hardball ammo of a 230 gr roundnose at 850 fps; and that there is no effect on the shooting but trajectory. The sights are 3/4" above the center of the bore like on my Colt.

You will be hitting .6" over POA at 7 yards, a commonly cited range for gunfights;
and 1.8" over at 15 yards, a common practice distance.
You will be 3" up at 25 yards, as factory set;
at a midrange "maximum ordnate" of 3.8" high at 43 yards,
and 3.7" high at 50 yards. Which is not far off the 6 o'clock hold for a 50 yard NRA target.
You will be at a center hold zero at 81 yards and only three inches low at 94 yards.

Which means you have a mankilling weapon to 100 yards if you can hold it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So in other words - "Don't worry about it rookie!"

Correct?

twomarks
 

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Assuming that everything is as advertised:
The gun is zeroed for a 6 o'clock hold on a 6 inch bullseye at 25 yards, that is, point of impact is 3" above the point of aim with hardball ammo of a 230 gr roundnose at 850 fps; and that there is no effect on the shooting but trajectory. The sights are 3/4" above the center of the bore like on my Colt.

You will be hitting .6" over POA at 7 yards, a commonly cited range for gunfights;
and 1.8" over at 15 yards, a common practice distance.
You will be 3" up at 25 yards, as factory set;
at a midrange "maximum ordnate" of 3.8" high at 43 yards,
and 3.7" high at 50 yards. Which is not far off the 6 o'clock hold for a 50 yard NRA target.
You will be at a center hold zero at 81 yards and only three inches low at 94 yards.

Which means you have a mankilling weapon to 100 yards if you can hold it.

Jim,

You, Sir, get a gold star for the best post in the EB forum so far in 2008.

Regards,
Greyson
 
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