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First, many of the powders used in pistol loads are older technology (Bullseye, for example, was first sold around 1895 give or take) and tend to be 'dirtier' than more modern powders. Most such powders tend to burn cleaner at the high end of the pressure range, but still have significant residue. Second, two major factors affect the burn rate in any pistol load: bullet pull and bullet weight. The more bullet pull (neck tension) you have the better off you are in terms of burn rate. And, assuming good neck tension, a heavier bullet will always raise pressure which also promotes better burning. Third, bullet crimp is vital. To the extent possible with autoloaders, the more crimp you have the better off you are. Any additional delay in the bullet starting to move, increases pressure and improves burn rate. Finally, fourth, is primer choice. If you've done everything possible to improve ignition and burning, and still have problems, use a magnum rated primer to increase initial internal case pressure at the start of the powder burn. One of the problems with small charges of fast powder is simply the amount of air space in the case versus that occupied by the powder. The bigger the case, the more likely you are to have ignition trouble with such powders. The .45 Colt is infamous in that regard. So, as a final bit of advice, change to a different powder that fills the case at least 80%, 100% is even better. That is the best solution for the .45 Colt for instance, regardless of the speed level you are looking for. A full case (powder space under the bullet) means there is immediate ignition of the charge since there is no air space to lower the brisance level when the primer fires. That promotes consistent pressure from shot to shot, which in turn means higher overall pressure to start with for a better burn, and much tighter ES/ED numbers.
Does this mean that loading the case (more) full would lead to (less) unburned powder?

I would have thought exactly the opposite. Luckily I'm loading very moderately, so there's plenty of room to experiment. The bummer part is I already loaded a thousand rounds like that. Ain't no way I'm pulling a thousand bullets.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Just got home and measured my crimp at .469 and checked again what the Hodgdon lable says for C.O.L. and it indeed calls for a C.O.L. at 1.225 for a Cast LSWC bullet.
 

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For OAL, I take a factory round and measure that. I go with that length on my reloads.
I would think slightly raising the powder charge, while keeping under Max in your reloading manual would fix the problem
 

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Discussion Starter #24
TTAC I would love to take that dimension, the problem is I don't have factory 45 round nose 200gr ammo to compare with.
 

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Your crimp may be too tight! Not sure I'd go below .469 especially in lead or plated bullets. Some say over (taper) crimping may reduce the size of the projectile and the case may loose some of it's tension. Less tension my decrease pressure increase soot! (Over taper-crimping may also contribute to barrel leading!)

By the way, are you seeing lots of carbon staining on the outside of ejected cases? This is also a sigh of low pressure!

Smiles,
 

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TTAC I would love to take that dimension, the problem is I don't have factory 45 round nose 200gr ammo to compare with.
TTAC I would love to take that dimension, the problem is I don't have factory 45 round nose 200gr ammo to compare with.
Google: "45 ACP SAAMI specification" 200 or 230 will be the same!

596903


Smiles,
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
Your crimp may be too tight! Not sure I'd go below .469 especially in lead or plated bullets. Some say over (taper) crimping may reduce the size of the projectile and the case may loose some of it's tension. Less tension my decrease pressure increase soot! (Over taper-crimping may also contribute to barrel leading!)

By the way, are you seeing lots of carbon staining on the outside of ejected cases? This is also a sigh of low pressure!

Smiles,
I've measured several factory loads of 230gr round nose and getting .467-.469 so I don't think I'm over crimping. As far as carbon staining, I'm seeing some on one side of the casing. I wouldn't call what I've seen excessive. I've looked at that very same SAAMI spec drawing a few times and noticed I'm well within the C.O.L. min and max dimensions. I also pulled a few bullets from my reloads and could see slight markings on the plated bullets. Nothing like gouging or pressing the case into the plating of the bullet. All of this is what is making me lean towards seating the bullet deeper.
 

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Hodgens list max at 5.9 , so your at the mid point.
The sweet spot for most loads is a grain or two under max.
So I would slightly increase the powder charge .5 grain at a time until you get to 5.7.
Checking at each increment if the unburnt flakes decrease.
A few here and there is not uncommon with any load.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
That's what gets frustrating. My Hodgdons powder bottle says max is 5.6gr. for that weight of projectile. I'll try to get out this weekend and play around with some higher loads and different C.O.L. lengths and see what happens.
 

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You’re getting closer.
The plated manufacturers suggest mid jacketed loads. The plated bullet can easily handle even a jacked up ACP.
I have, and many many others as well had very good success with 231/HP38. Mostly with a 230 gr though. Keep messin’ with it.....this is the fun part......
 

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Not sure if this helps you much but I looked up my chrono data:

Xtreme 230gr plated
5.2 gr HP-38
COAL 1.260/.469"
avg velocity 722 fps
No undue residue/flakes noted. (and I normally note them when present)
Good shooting load


Sounds like you are just too light for a clean burn, with a 200gr bullet.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Thank you both for your help and information. With all this information everyone has provided so far, if nothing else the wife won't be complaining about parking my butt on my thrown in front of the T.V. for awhile. Thanks again.
 

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In my opinion, HP-38 is only suitable for hard heavy bullets. I used HP-38 exclusively in both 9mm and 45 ACP until the Obama shortages forced me to start casting bullets. I had terrible results with cast bullets and HP-38, even using 230 grain bullets. I chronographed the load and found out it was less than 700 fps with a max load of HP-38.

200 grain plated bullets simply don't have enough resistance to get an optimum burn with HP-38. Too soft, and too light, no matter how tight you crimp them.
 

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I would think slightly raising the powder charge, while keeping under
Max in your reloading manual would fix the problem
Slightly more powder boosts pressure.
Smokeless powder is generally designed
to operate best at higher pressure than say black.

More pressure in the chamber means more complete deflagration of the powder.
It almost instantly goes from being a solid to a hot gas.

If you look at a piezo pressure trace from a gun being fired, the powder breaks
down during the rising portion of the trace.
 

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I'm just guessing here but by chance are you shooting jerry's 200gr round nose hollow base. If it is indeed the hollow base that would explain the burn of your powder. I tried those once and getting the powder amount to burn good shoot good and cycle the gun was very frustrating. But I'm not real smart and that was my experience. Good luck and also it would be beneficial to read and watch as much info about reloading as you can find again just my experience from a slow witted redneck

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk
 

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In my opinion, HP-38 is only suitable for hard heavy bullets. I used HP-38 exclusively in both 9mm and 45 ACP until the Obama shortages forced me to start casting bullets. I had terrible results with cast bullets and HP-38, even using 230 grain bullets. I chronographed the load and found out it was less than 700 fps with a max load of HP-38.

200 grain plated bullets simply don't have enough resistance to get an optimum burn with HP-38. Too soft, and too light, no matter how tight you crimp them.
Horse Hockey,
For years, I have shot lightweight 158 Gr cast SWC with 231 using minimal to hot loads in a 357.
Good burn on both ends.
As far as "resistance", that is achieved moreso by tension created by resizing the case, Not by the crimp when using a taper crimp. Roll crimps in a revolver are a totally different beast.
I also have many examples of pushing cast 230's well over the 800's using published data (close to max).
 

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Hodgens list max at 5.9 , so your at the mid point.
The sweet spot for most loads is a grain or two under max.
So I would slightly increase the powder charge .5 grain at a time until you get to 5.7.
Checking at each increment if the unburnt flakes decrease.
A few here and there is not uncommon with any load.
Many loads for the 45 ACP don't have a 2 grain spread from minimum to maximum. Some powders have less than a grain.


OP, the cleanest burning powders I've found in 45 ACP are Clays and Clean Shot. I've loaded 45 ACP with over 30 different powders. By clean burning I'm talking about not finding unburnt powder flakes.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
I'm just guessing here but by chance are you shooting jerry's 200gr round nose hollow base. If it is indeed the hollow base that would explain the burn of your powder. I tried those once and getting the powder amount to burn good shoot good and cycle the gun was very frustrating. But I'm not real smart and that was my experience. Good luck and also it would be beneficial to read and watch as much info about reloading as you can find again just my experience from a slow witted redneck

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Sorry there pops;) but I'm using Xtreme 200gr. RN. But I did enjoy your comment and honesty:) I plan on going shopping this weekend to get a couple more books
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Cannibal, thanks for the tip I plan on getting a couple different more brands this weekend.
Nitro.45 also thank you for the tip. I really do appreciate all the comments and suggestions from all of you.
 
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