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Let's just say, we have a tradition to maintain.

I have a Ruger M77 which closely copies the 1898 Mauser, the "assault weapon" used by the Kaiser's troops to dominate Europe for 4 years, and Hitler's landwehr 20 years later. My grandfather's .36 "squirrel" rifle, a converted flintlock, could have picked off British officers 90 years earlier, and probably was used on a few marauding bluecoats who strayed into Tennessee.
 

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Tench Coxe got it right

If American History were still taught in public schools (instead of "Heather Has 2 Mommies") more folks might know about Tench Coxe, an early American economist and thinker who served under Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Madison.

In answer to the question of "what kind of arms shall the People keep and bear" under the intent and purpose of the 2nd Amendment, Coxe said "Every terrible implement of the soldier". Look it up.

So, selective fire? Yup. RPGs? Yup. LAWs? Yup. And practice with those with your local militia so the People can resist the standing army, if need be. But the very moment you so much as threaten your neighbor or fellow citizen with any of that hardware, it's straight to prison for you; no wrist-slaps, no plea-bargains for gun crimes. That's the way I think things ought to be.
 

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Seems to me that I as a citizen of the United States of America should be allowed to own any Weapons or Armaments that I want, provided I have the financial means with which to acquire said arms.
Is that not the current system?

Just look at Mike Dillon, the owner of Dillon Precision to see what one can own. All men are created equal with the same rights, its just that money lets one acquire what they want.
 

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Is that not the current system?

Just look at Mike Dillon, the owner of Dillon Precision to see what one can own. All men are created equal with the same rights, its just that money lets one acquire what they want.
True BUT Personally I don't believe a citizen should have to pay "tax stamps" and other BS, or that a citizen should be required to submit to a back ground check such things imply a privilige not a right.

Not to mention if there where not so many legal hoops to jump through things would NOT be so expensive after all in reality the M16 forexample if you wanted one and could afford it and its paper work would run about 16k ish however I bet you they don't cost anymore than an AR-15 to make...
The same could be said for RPG's and such...
I believe all of the above are infringements on our rights.
 

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The thing is, people are focusing on "what the purpose of that is". Doesn't matter. If I want to stock RPGs, then who cares? People think that ohh if you don't regulate it then people will get them and be irresponsible. If you follow regulations then it becomes moot. The ATF, Fire codes, and other various federal, state, and city laws will prohibit most people from owning these things anyway. If you have an explosive device, then it becomes very regulated where and how you store and use them. If you own grenades, you can't just keep them in your closet. You have to have approved containers and they have to be stored certain places according to fire code. So joe blow in a city apartment will never legally posses a grenade. Notice I said LEGALLY. I think some things should be regulated but not prohibited. Ok maybe a nuclear weapon can be prohibited. But if I want a bomb or C4 or something that if not HANDLED properly could level a neighborhood, then I should be required to go to training on that device, whether it be bomb school or whatever. Even the military doesn't just let anyone play with their explosives.
 

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It is true that there is and should be regulations for the safe handleing of explosives as well as how and where they maybe employed, Quatities that may be owned and stored safely...

I work with this stuff daily, trust me I am WELL aquainted with quantity distance regs, storage compatability and Net Explosive Weight limits for facilities.

But If I am to be told "NO you absolutely cannot have a grenade" that is not alright with me, because I may very well be able to meet the requirements for all of the above, heck If I where living on my Grandpa's farm I would have 160ish acers of land in the middle of no place to build a AA&E storage facility.

Also, The Military and government have much stricter guid lines than we do, take reloading for example, all that powder setting on peoples ungrounded benches being loaded with out adhearing to a two man rule and with out... would be grounds for shutting down a government facility, but it is completely legal for us.
 

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Who's to say a civilian run armory wouldn't be a good idea we could keep our RPG's and Fully automatic assault rifles there!:scratch:
Until we need them for some thing or are going to a legaly designated area to run exercises with them...:eek:
That is after all how the military does it. Since we are using all of this banter in the context of being a well regulated Militia
Just saying.
 

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Seems to me that I as a citizen of the United States of America should be allowed to own any Weapons or Armaments that I want, provided I have the financial means with which to acquire said arms.
Is that not the current system?

Just look at Mike Dillon, the owner of Dillon Precision to see what one can own. All men are created equal with the same rights, its just that money lets one acquire what they want.
Unfortunately, it is not the current system. For instance, if I wanted to build a select fire weapon that was built with a sear that was manufactured this year, I couldn't. Or, if I wanted to convert a couple of my firearms to select fire, I can't. Unless, I am mistaken. If so, please let me know how to do this legally!
 

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Unfortunately, it is not the current system. For instance, if I wanted to build a select fire weapon that was built with a sear that was manufactured this year, I couldn't. Or, if I wanted to convert a couple of my firearms to select fire, I can't. Unless, I am mistaken. If so, please let me know how to do this legally!
Far as I know you can't that is why it currently cost 10k or more to build such a weapon.
 

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Amos Iron Wolf has a point. The LE ARE civilians so I don't see why they should receive special privileges.

What they have over the normal civilian is acquired authority, they should not have "power".


While I agree that they should have access to ARs and such, as sometimes "duty calls" and you need an effective and correct tool for certain jobs, but if they can have firearms we ordinarily can't have then it is just wrong.

The example he used comparing them to electricians/plumbers is perfect.




I don't know how it is for a lot of you in the rest of the country, but in Illinois, more specifically Chicago and Cook county, we have very terrible 2nd Amendment stripping gun laws.

It was only recently passed that you could even OWN a handgun within the city limits (McDonald vs Chicago), and there is still a basic assault-weapons ban in place for all of Cook county as fallout from a Chicago ordinance.

In Cook it is illegal to own many common semi-auto rifles and shotguns due to very general language and specific conditions defining them as "assault weapons", and I won't go into details.

It is enough to say that I can't have the AR-15, AK, or even Mini-14 that I so desire within the town that I reside. I can own them, but I must keep them at a location outside the confines of my home county.



At least I can have my Mossberg 590A1...
 

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Justice Scalia, Opinion of the Court

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, et al., PETITIONERS v.
DICK ANTHONY HELLER

Quote
Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment . We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997) , and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001) , the Second Amendment extends, prima facie,to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.
End Quote

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZO.html
Thanks for posting that link. The answers to pretty much every twisted interpretation of the 2nd Amendment are right there in that decision, including the historical precedent, which the antis seemingly know nothing about. The 2nd only applies to organized militia? Not according to the Supreme Court. The 2nd is about hunting and target shooting? Not according to the Supreme Court. The 2nd doesn't mean an individual has a right to keep and bear arms? Not according to the Supreme Court. The 2nd only means arms like muskets? Not according to the Supreme Court. Only nutjobs are concerned about what the government could do to the population if we are disarmed? Not according to the Supreme Court. On and on. That right there is a pretty good argument stopper!
 

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Unfortunately, it is not the current system. For instance, if I wanted to build a select fire weapon that was built with a sear that was manufactured this year, I couldn't. Or, if I wanted to convert a couple of my firearms to select fire, I can't. Unless, I am mistaken. If so, please let me know how to do this legally!

I say you could build it legally. I say you cant assemble it legally.

If you have money, you check some forums or with Dillion who makes full auto guns to test/play/sell. It is best to have a lot of money and a lawyers. Start with a LLC, move to maufacture/test, etc...
 

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Amos Iron Wolf has a point. The LE ARE civilians so I don't see why they should receive special privileges.

What they have over the normal civilian is acquired authority, they should not have "power".


While I agree that they should have access to ARs and such, as sometimes "duty calls" and you need an effective and correct tool for certain jobs, but if they can have firearms we ordinarily can't have then it is just wrong.

The example he used comparing them to electricians/plumbers is perfect.




I don't know how it is for a lot of you in the rest of the country, but in Illinois, more specifically Chicago and Cook county, we have very terrible 2nd Amendment stripping gun laws.

It was only recently passed that you could even OWN a handgun within the city limits (McDonald vs Chicago), and there is still a basic assault-weapons ban in place for all of Cook county as fallout from a Chicago ordinance.

In Cook it is illegal to own many common semi-auto rifles and shotguns due to very general language and specific conditions defining them as "assault weapons", and I won't go into details.

It is enough to say that I can't have the AR-15, AK, or even Mini-14 that I so desire within the town that I reside. I can own them, but I must keep them at a location outside the confines of my home county.



At least I can have my Mossberg 590A1...
From what I have seen, Feds have all the full auto assault weapons. They also are the ones that have them stolen by gang bangers. I would say the Military needs set weapons, but the Feds? What does the IRS, FDA, FCC, FAA, etc need them for. The USSS and FBI could use sniper rifles and shotguns vs assault weapons. ATF and DEA seem to give away the most assault weapons, yet gangs tend to return them or the bodies they took with them.

The Feds should be the first ones to disarm assault weapons, they serve the people.
 

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The intent of the Founders was to have a populace as well armed as the military. This historic marker from Abram Bevier's house is Exhibit A of that.

If on social media, please spread.
People forget that when we went to Iraq the CMP was asking Civilian Master and High master high power shooters to train recruits in long range shooting with AR's.
 

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My view is.
If the police can get it then we do too.
If they don't then we don't.
I agree with the above.

The 2A was not designed for hunting or sport, those are just perks after the fact. The 2A was designed to protect the People from enemies foreign and domestic including a correct government.

I do not fear our military as most will stand & defend the Constitution,

However in the past, corrupt governments have always used the police & Law enforcement to enslave their own people.

The People should have the same firepower as Law enforcement!
 

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if by gangbangers you mean "the people".

One should be able to have a B2 bomber as a lawn ornament if they so choose.:biglaugh:

Seriously though:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State":

it doesn't mean hunting, it doesn't mean sport. firearms are to protect the state, not shoot clays, or punch holes in paper one at a time.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State"

Unfortunately, the politicians, government officials, those elected to office by “US” the voters don’t like the idea of the above statement, the media has been doing a fabulous job in scaring those that don’t know any better, the common civilian who believes that nothing will ever happen to them or are afraid of something that they themselves don’t know anything about. Grant it that most not “ALL” civilians have ever served our Country when called upon, know the U.S Constitution; we have many imbeciles walking the earth, especially here in the U.S. :scratch:

Ultimately the “real issues” are not being totally addressed, which sadly is “Mental Health” and big pharmas producing all these psychotropic’s drugs, which have caused countless of suicides, mass shooting, serial killers, and a lot of pain and suffering. But everyone wants to pass on the blame for our own Government failures onto the law-abiding citizens of this great nation…

Blame the so called “Assault style” rifles, guns, “Fully automatic weapons, etc and all the paranoia but the real facts is that no amount gun control works or will ever work, proven fact. It’s more of a social issue than the gun itself and many other issues in which have not been addressed. The media unfortunately is the culprit for all the negative information, lack of documented facts, studies, etc. Today’s news media outlets are only concerned with one thing and one thing only, “NOT THE TRUTH, FACTS, BUT RATINGS! :rock::bawling:
 

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Is that not the current system?

Just look at Mike Dillon, the owner of Dillon Precision to see what one can own. All men are created equal with the same rights, its just that money lets one acquire what they want.
No CavCop that is not the current system.

Our system depends on who you know and where you live! Try to buy a full auto weapon here in Atlanta or DeKalb county Ga.
Yes, you are allowed to own them with the proper paperwork, but you can not get the democrat CLEO to sign off on the ATF form. Well, unless you actually know your own Sheriff or City Mayor to make the CLEO to sign off on it.
The only work a round is a trust, why should one be forced to do that!
 

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As for the Militia, you can use their own law against them in argument. 10USC, Part 311 lays it all out and removes the doubt.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311

There are no ifs, ands, or buts, we are all members of the Unorganized Militia of the United States of America.

a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
 

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The LE ARE civilians so I don't see why they should receive special privileges.

What they have over the normal civilian is acquired authority, they should not have "power".
Somebody's not been getting enough caffeine. The PoPo are not civilians in the "we the people" sense. They are STATE ACTORS. That means that when they act in an official capacity, THEY ARE THE STATE (acting at THE STATE'S behest). They are the very ones (along with the "standing army" - Military, Active Duty, Reservists and National Guard; and other armed state and federal authorities: FBI, DEA, Coast Guard, etc.) who have been armed by THE STATE in order to enforce the orders of THE STATE.

"We the people", are non-state actors, who through our acquiescence, give THE STATE its authority to govern us. 2A is all about we the people preserving our freedom from STATE tyranny by keeping and bearing arms.

Now, as we all (excepting those in D.C., and indian reservations) live under both state and federal STATES, with two constitutions and two sets of STATE ACTORS (e.g. those of South Carolina and the United States of America), police authority to act in official capacity comes from many sources: local, state and federal. The PoPo can be STATE ACTORS at any official source, but they are always STATE ACTORS, and never "we the people".

As stated by SCOTUS in Heller our rights under 2A are not absolute, meaning THE STATE may impose restrictions upon them. We are about to experience an attempt to set such restrictions. Buckle up, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
 

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The People should have the same firepower as Law enforcement!
What weapons does you local Police force have that you can not buy? I mean the patrol officers and detectives that work your streets. What great weapons does the PD have?

The Feds have a lot of neat toys, but local PD's, heck most the officers buy their own gun from the same place you do. Others get issued weapons at a discount from set places that work deals.
 
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