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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
carry factory loads or handloads and why? Have seen some strange returns to this question on other boards. Thanks, Phil...
 

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A good idea is to find out what local law enforcement is using in their duty guns and use that same kind of ammo.

Even if you're not carrying the same caliber, use the same ammo. It'll save you some grief in your trial if you ever have to shoot anybody.

NEVER USE HANDLOADS IN CARRY GUNS!
 

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I carry Federal Hydrashock Premiums in my carry 1911, Blazer JHP in my Makarov.
 

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Here we go again, this same subject has been discussed here and at other forums and everybody talks about the pros and cons of using factory vs. reloads. But one post over at the tupperware forum by a lawyer really stuck to my mind. Of course the discussion was about factory vs. reloads. The lawyer who posted said that what's important in court is not what you used but more what your intention was when you pulled the trigger. If you established that your intention was justified, then what you used is a moot point, this applies to not only the ammo but also the the type of gun used, i.e. C&L 1911, which is a whole different subject in of itself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Slydlok, I didn't mean to bring up a topic that has been worn out already. I'm rather new here. And I've read with interest what everyone on other boards have had to say about this topic. But I feel like it never hurts to hear as many opinions as you can about some thing that is important to you. I hope and pray that I never have to draw my gun in anger, but if that time ever does come, I want ever shred of information I ever read about it on my side! Sorry again if I rubbed your feathers the wrong way, I sure didn't mean to. Phil...
 

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I use Remington Golden Sabers in all my carry guns. There are so many good commercial self defense rounds out there I honestly don't think I can do better rolling my own. Whether the talk about using reloads for self defense is urban myth or not, I don't see any major advantage to reloading my own.
 

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Let's hope we never have to use it...

Jethead has a valid point. Either that or chat with an LEO and ask them. I did that and took advice from an NRA instructor as well. Ended up with Federal Hydrashocks in .40S&W, Sig P-229.

In any event, do what it takes to protect your civil liability.
 

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Factory, always factory loads. I save the reloads for target practice and plinking only. I carry Federal EFMJ in all my CCW guns.

MadDog :p
 

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You might try doing a search on this subject.

Someone asked for anyone to post any reference to this EVER being used in a self defense shooting. No one could come up with one.

A cop is the last person I would ask about this subject. They will interject all kinds of BS they have been told by other cops who never knew the legal answer in the first place.

And like one other poster said, if it is a good shoot, it doesn't matter if you hit him with both barrels of a ten gauge, it is a good shoot.

All that being said, I see no need to carry reloads for defense with so many good factory loads out there.
 

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"A cop is the last person I would ask about this subject. .."
I happen to have a very good (therefore reliable) friend who was long-term with the local Sheriff's office (just weeks ago retired... but not really: He went on supervisorial assignment to Bosnia to do things there for a whole year). The SO, by the way, was V-E-R-R-R-Y sorry to lose him at this point in time. In any case, he has had occasion to give me the straight scoop on many things that pertained to my safety and responsibility pertaining to firearms and such.
 

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Your friend is a rare breed. I was a firearms instructor for years and the majority of LEO's don't know and don't care about weapons.

I recommend top quality commercial ammo also. There is a track record for each brand and some inherant quality issues that could work for you however the shooting turned out.
 

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Hey Phil, I did not mean to sound that way, I was trying to sound smart-ass. I guess should have used those smiley faces:eek: . As far as I'm concerned it's good to bring up the same topic every once in awhile if for nothing else as a reminder. There are some of us that needs constant reminding, at least that's what my wife says. I just wanted to get that point across about what that lawyer posted. It makes so much more sense to me than what ammo you carry in your weapon. For the record, I'm in the school that advocate the use of whatever ammo works best in your gun, HP's are plus if the they open up, if not, you are still putting a good size hole in whatever you are shooting at, of course I'm talking about the .45ACP.
 

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I never said to ask a cop what they would suggest you using in your carry gun.

I said ask a local cop what they use in their carry/duty gun.

It is wise to protect your own civil liabilities.

It stands to reason (in court) that if you are using the same ammo as the local cops your ammo choice wouldn't be brought into as much question.

To each his own.

My suggestion is certainly not the only way to go, just another in a long list of choices.
 

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Pretty much every option will get you in some trouble if a lawyer goes that route.

"He's using killer handloads!"

"He's using the same ammo as the police, and is a wannabe vigilante cop!"

Etc, etc.

Worry about the justifications first.

Everything else is going to bite you in the ass, no matter how nice you try to play it - there's always something.

Your ass can't be bitten, though, if you have a good shoot in the first place.
 

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Philbee,

I should probably go into rehab for my addiction to reloading, but I personally would never use anything but factory loads for carry/self defense.

I'm kind of surprised that you would see any response other than "stick to factory loads for defense" anyplace--but that's just me.
 

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I carry factory loads. When I spoke to a local lawyer this is what he recommended. He said, "If you ever have to shoot someone even if it is justified and no crimial charges were filed you will probabaly be sued by the scumbags family in a civil suit. Someone in his family will think his life was worth something." He also said, "Factory load remove any questions if the load was over powered and in court the facts on personal hand loaded ammo could be made to look qustionable to a jury."
 

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I recall reading on some forums thread on this topic that the whole fear of carrying handloads stems from the 'Yoob himself, Mr Ayoob. As far as anyone could find, there was no case history of the issue of factory vs handloads ever occuring. Gee, any attorney with half a brain can make you look bad on the stand regardless of the ammo you used.

Whoever said that what is most important is whether you have a justifiable shooting is correct.

Oh, and don't draw your firearm in anger--ever. In fear of your life or another's life, YES, but in anger, NO.
 

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ccw007 said:
I carry factory loads. When I spoke to a local lawyer this is what he recommended. He said, "If you ever have to shoot someone even if it is justified and no crimial charges were filed you will probabaly be sued by the scumbags family in a civil suit. Someone in his family will think his life was worth something." He also said, "Factory load remove any questions if the load was over powered and in court the facts on personal hand loaded ammo could be made to look qustionable to a jury."
But they will sue you just the same and have the same chance of winning damages from you regardless of whether you use a handload or factory load. At least that is where things stand right now. Once again, there is no court evidence to support the notion that handloads increase liability and have had a detrimental outcome in civil court for a justified shooting.

Using the same ammo as your local LEOs use does not make sense unless you have the same needs and advantages that the LEOs have. When you get on the phone with 911, can you cry "person needs help" and have every cop available for miles around immediately converge on your location to provide you with help? Probably not. Do you wear a ballistic vest most of the time? Probably not.

Understand that LEO ammo may be selected for reasons of NOT doing as much harm so as to preclude the possibility of over penetration. Our local cops use 40 gr. polymer tipped .223 rounds for tactical operations. The round chosen is great for not over penetrating interior walls or not doing so in a hugely negative manner, but then round also doesn't penetrate very deeply in the person you are shooting. So they are more worried with overpenetration than stops and they have the luxury as they are working in a team format, heavy armor, etc. Those are luxuries most of us don't have.

Ammo may also be decided on by non-LEO city officials who simply go with the lowest bidder that can meet the ammo criteria needs.

Of course, the real question is...just what LEO department do you survey for your ammo choice. Do you use the local PD, Sheriff, Dog catcher, FBI, DEA, INS, state trooper, or constable? How do you justify selecting the particular LEO to follow in ammo choice?
 

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Satisfying as it may be, I just don't have the time for another hobby. Where all the handloaders get the time to do that is beyond me unless they're retired or something. Heck, I have trouble squeezing in a movie every couple weeks!
 
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