1911Forum banner
Cancel

Frame cracks

5882 Views 92 Replies 40 Participants Last post by  Pierre003, 
stefano462
3
Is this frame junk or repairable? What would have caused this?
Trigger Air gun Gun barrel Gun accessory Metal
Automotive tire Bicycle part Wood Motor vehicle Rim
Wood Gas Composite material Hardwood Aluminium
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 2
61 - 80 of 93 Posts
Pierre003
Curious is weak recoil spring & +P+ ammo would cause something like that...
Good happy hour conversation..."Ran out of ammo and hit the guy on the head"...
Reply
Save
Like
Tenx100s
warp2diesel said:
The cracked portion of the frame is normally under a compressive load not a tension load when firing the pistol. Having the slide return to battery would not put that much stress on that part of the frame.
Looks like a bad batch of metal used for the frame causing fatigue cracks. Welding it up would most likely have a new cracks form on the sides of the welds. Not worth repairing.
Click to expand...
While welding has been suggested there is the matter of new fractures occurring from the stresses that welding imposes. There may also be existing microstructure cracks that you cannot see. The very process of welding even TIG will add stress to the frame. If you decide to try having it welded up, I suggest that you have it stress relieved (annealed) before you begin refitting any component. FYI: Stress relieving cannot be done reliably with a torch on a part that large and complex. It should be done in a heat treat oven. Unfortunately stress relieving will take the temper out of the material making it soft, so it would be necessary to reharden and draw/temper the frame. That is done by taking it to the correct austenitizing temperature for that specific material and quenching. Then it is drawn/tempered at a lower temperature to reduce the brittleness.
How do I know? I own Great Lakes Tool & Engineering and we work in tool steels every day. We do most of our own heat treating but because we do not have an atmospherically controlled oven, we outsource larger and special needs components.
My conclusion is that this not worth repairing.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 4
Q
If it was mine, I'd put that pistol back together and set it on my desk as it would make a great paperweight.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 2
crasig
Either a surplus donor HP - or a black steel Tisas HP - for a replacement frame & parts - might be a way to go - using your upper end + a bit of fitting.
However : I shoot one of the plated Mauser marked FEG HP Clones (that I rebuilt), + a stainless Regent (Tisas) HP Clone. both function beautifully, & were affordable when I bought them. I have been very satisfied with them - so never felt the need to pay-up for a worn surplus HP. I'd surely limit all ammo used to light FACTORY loads.
just my $.2
Best of luck to you, C.

Attachments

See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
K
crasig said:
Either a surplus donor HP - or a black steel Tisas HP - for a replacement frame & parts - might be a way to go - using your upper end + a bit of fitting.
However : I shoot one of the plated Mauser marked FEG HP Clones (that I rebuilt), + a stainless Regent (Tisas) HP Clone. both function beautifully, & were affordable when I bought them. I have been very satisfied with them - so never felt the need to pay-up for a worn surplus HP. I'd surely limit all ammo used to light FACTORY loads.
just my $.2
Best of luck to you, C.
Click to expand...
Please let us know if you repair it and all the steps along the way.
I'd replace it.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
M
I am not at all a firearms expert, buy I personally would not try to repair that. I would be scared to shoot a gun that had that kind of damage then repaired. In my 45 years of shooting guns, both hunting and in the military, I ahve never seen that kind of damage to a gun.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Pierre003
Concur that's beyond help...some good advice above. But it would make a great conversation piece..."Got pissed and hit the guy over the head""" etc...
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 4
Fatboy46
stefano462 said:
Is this frame junk or repairable? What would have caused this? View attachment 665649 View attachment 665650 View attachment 665651
Click to expand...
Take it to a gunsmith.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Pierre003
stefano462 said:
Is this frame junk or repairable? What would have caused this? View attachment 665649 View attachment 665650 View attachment 665651
Click to expand...
I may have missed it...but what brand/make is that frame???
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Top Cover
I'll echo that last one, what kind of Handgun? In my humble opinion fixing might just make it a display piece, as you don't know here more crack are going to appear. Kind of like the San Andreas.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
ssn vet
Parts gun... time to take up hobby smithing ;)
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 2
K
ssn vet said:
Parts gun... time to take up hobby smithing ;)
Click to expand...
🤣🤣
Reply
Save
Like
S⊕TA
trooper894 said:
Some will say that anything CAN be welded up, but can proper dimensions be maintained? Just because something can be done, doesn't necessarily mean it is a good idea. Sad to say, but I think that one is now a paperweight.
Click to expand...
a paperweight with a serial number.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 2
stefano462
Pierre003 said:
I may have missed it...but what brand/make is that frame???
Click to expand...
1986 Browning/FN Mark III
Reply
Save
Like
stefano462
Tenx100s said:
While welding has been suggested there is the matter of new fractures occurring from the stresses that welding imposes. There may also be existing microstructure cracks that you cannot see. The very process of welding even TIG will add stress to the frame. If you decide to try having it welded up, I suggest that you have it stress relieved (annealed) before you begin refitting any component. FYI: Stress relieving cannot be done reliably with a torch on a part that large and complex. It should be done in a heat treat oven. Unfortunately stress relieving will take the temper out of the material making it soft, so it would be necessary to reharden and draw/temper the frame. That is done by taking it to the correct austenitizing temperature for that specific material and quenching. Then it is drawn/tempered at a lower temperature to reduce the brittleness.
How do I know? I own Great Lakes Tool & Engineering and we work in tool steels every day. We do most of our own heat treating but because we do not have an atmospherically controlled oven, we outsource larger and special needs components.
My conclusion is that this not worth repairing.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the expert opinion. I do not disagree with your analysis. That being said, I have decided to go ahead and have it welded up by someone with experience in these things. Fortunately, I can afford the science experiment, and I am curious to see what happens. Maybe it will continue to fail. Maybe it will not. We shall see.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
stefano462
KimberProCDP said:
Please let us know if you repair it and all the steps along the way.
I'd replace it.
Click to expand...
Will do!
Reply
Save
Like
stefano462
ssn vet said:
Parts gun... time to take up hobby smithing ;)
Click to expand...
Ha! That's what got me in this position in the first place. I have been a hobby smith for a long time. It took me three years to get around to disassembling this pistol and start the project. A severe backlog just like the rest of the custom firearm-related industry!!
Reply
Save
Like
Pierre003
stefano462 said:
1986 Browning/FN Mark III
Click to expand...
Wow, must have been a production fault...
Reply
Save
Like
crasig
I love my Stainless REGENT (TISAS) HP. NO tool marks beautifully made & finished - actually nicer than the late FN's I've examined. Tisa, Girsan, & possibly others are making them again + they are NEW with no wear + warrantee. Turks make quality guns - even ZENITH AP9 under contract to H&K
My only complaint with some, is the painted "finish" - I'd prefer even a black oxide to "fudge" coatings - this would apply to new FNs & Springfields or ANY handgun - but just me personally.
Bet if you read up + shop around you can scratch your HP itch without going broke.
Good Luck, C
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Pierre003
crasig said:
I love my Stainless REGENT (TISAS) HP. NO tool marks beautifully made & finished - actually nicer than the late FN's I've examined. Tisa, Girsan, & possibly others are making them again + they are NEW with no wear + warrantee. Turks make quality guns - even ZENITH AP9 under contract to H&K
My only complaint with some, is the painted "finish" - I'd prefer even a black oxide to "fudge" coatings - this would apply to new FNs & Springfields or ANY handgun - but just me personally.
Bet if you read up + shop around you can scratch your HP itch without going broke.
Good Luck, C
Click to expand...
Does it take standard FN parts???
Reply
Save
Like
61 - 80 of 93 Posts
1911Forum
A forum community dedicated to all 1911 firearm owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Gun Discussion Gunsmithing & Troubleshooting Colt Reloading Bench Springfield Armory
Top