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Discussion Starter #1
This really caught my eye. I think I read a book by Larry Bond about this once.

STORY

France and Germany discuss union

Jon Henley in Paris
Thursday November 13, 2003
The Guardian

France and Germany are publicly discussing the possibility of a "Franco-German union" that would allow them to cooperate more closely in such areas as education, social affairs and the economy and even merge their defence and foreign policies, the French daily Le Monde said yesterday.
The paper said that at this stage Europe's two most powerful nations, whose historic enmity has been transformed into the main driving force towards European integration, saw the project primarily as a tactic to ensure that countries such as Spain and Poland do not block the planned European constitution, paralysing the EU as it expands to 25 members next year.

But beyond short-term tactical considerations, some form of Franco-German union is seen by leaders particularly in Paris as a vital future step. The French foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin, said the project was "essential" and "the only historic gamble that we cannot lose".

The prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, who earlier this month hoisted a joint meeting of French and German regional authorities, also believes the two countries' relations have never been closer and that the time is ripe to go "pretty far", Le Monde said. After a shaky period during and immediately after the stormy Nice EU summit in December 2000, Paris and Berlin have worked conspicuously hard to get the so-called Franco-German motor firing again.

Their efforts culminated earlier this year when the French president, Jacques Chirac, and the German chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, signed a declaration promising more cooperation in areas ranging from crime to foreign policy.

They also said France and Germany would seek to "adopt common positions" in international bodies, including the UN security council, hold joint cabinet meetings, harmonise national laws wherever possible, and each appoint a senior official to oversee Franco-German cooperation.

Since then the two countries' relationship has been further cemented by the role they played in opposing the US-led invasion of Iraq, and more recently Mr Chirac represented Mr Schröder at an European council meeting in October.

But it is the realisation in both capitals that without the closest possible cooperation, France and Germany could well lose much of their influence in a larger EU that seems to be driving the project for a Franco-German union.

Le Monde quoted Mr Raffarin as saying: "If Europe with 25 members is a failure, what is left for France? The initiative of Franco-German rapprochement."

The prime minister reportedly continued, during a recent informal debate, to praise the "efficiency" of Paris's relations with Berlin and to say he could "well imagine that one day a German commissioner could represent France in Brussels."
 

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So this is new?

It's been attempted several times in the last century-and-a-half. The last attempt ended in 1945! Are the Germans so stupid/brain dead that they'd still want to be united with the French?
 

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But beyond short-term tactical considerations, some form of Franco-German union is seen by leaders particularly in Paris as a vital future step.
Vital step towards a one world govt?


They also said France and Germany would seek to "adopt common positions" in international bodies, including the UN security council, hold joint cabinet meetings, harmonise national laws wherever possible, and each appoint a senior official to oversee Franco-German cooperation.
I believe we've seen where that might get us.


Are the Germans so stupid/brain dead that they'd still want to be united with the French?
I'm assuming that's a rhetorical question.?
 

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Warrior Gene

This points to a theory of mine. I believe that there is a "Warrior Gene."


It was killed out of the Italians by the Romans.

Napoleon and the Russians killed it out of the French.

Hitler and the Russians, with a little help from us and the Brits, killed it out of the Germans.

Now we're trying to educate it out of us Americans.


How else would you explain the growing glorification of the Wimp?
 

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Re: Warrior Gene

Now we're trying to educate it out of us Americans.

Interesting theory,but I don't think educating it out of Americans will work, thank God. England has tried this too, (their pop culture is even more overrun by political correctness than ours), and yet look at the peformance of British and American troops in the middle east. The Warrior lives!

A friend of mine opined that the Roman Empire fell when the warrior class lost their integrity. The same thing happened to the prussian tradition. Lead by example, politely but firmly speak out, and raise your sons the way you know they should be, and we'll be fine.
 

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Isn't this basically just a localized version of what the European Union is doing anyways? It's not unheard of for sovreign governments to join together in order to aid in their ecomomic and military strength. After all that's how and why this nation was formed. NATO was based on this idea also although from just the military and defense side. Coming together more tightly actually makes a lot of sense for Europe. In the 20th century the European nations saw their influence and power slip away as the US gained preminence. Singly they will probably never be able to regain what they have lost, together they probably can. Stay safe, Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I agree Gary, there isnt anything particularly new about nations allying with one another to increase their influence, and it is very much what the EU is about. The reason why I brought it up is because a Franco Prussian alliance would dominate the EU and could shape the EUs policies towards us. I think this century will see a cold war between the US and Europe.
 

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Mus said:
I think this century will see a cold war between the US and Europe.
Dear Mus,

I wouldn't doubt it. It's already started in fact with the dispute over genetically engineered agricultural products. It doesn't bode well for us either with Europe across one ocean, and China across the other. Unless we actually do something to reenergize our manufacturing base, which to a large extent has been relocated overseas, we'll have a hard time competing with either one of them. Stay safe, Gary
 

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"Isn't this basically just a localized version of what the European Union is doing anyways?..."

Gary,

Rather, the EU is more the expanded idea of a largely Franco-German effort. While there were certainly several other countries involved in the early stages, much of the drive for the EEC (to become the EU) came from France and German interests.
 

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Great. :rolleyes: How many millions died in WWI to stop Germany from talking over France? 100 years later and they are going to join ranks?

You think the Germans will adopt the French nation flag? You know, the white one?
 
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