Full length Guide Rod?
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The XSEs do come with a flgr, and the other Colt models do not (The little Defender, etc are different animals). I could never see a reason to have one exept to maybe add weight. The two piece ones need to be checked several times while you shoot to be sure they do not come apart until you know how many rounds it takes before they come apart.
Flgr
I have two Government Models, one is a SS XSE and the other is a "plain Jane" 1991 in Blue. Of course the XSE has the one piece FLGR (and is my main carry weapon) and the 1991 doesn't. In my humble opinion there is probably no gain in accuracy or reliability going either way......and it is for that reason that I will leave both 1911s stock. What I would like to know is why people here in the Colt forum bash on FLGR's???
I have two Government Models, one is a SS XSE and the other is a "plain Jane" 1991 in Blue. Of course the XSE has the one piece FLGR (and is my main carry weapon) and the 1991 doesn't. In my humble opinion there is probably no gain in accuracy or reliability going either way......and it is for that reason that I will leave both 1911s stock. What I would like to know is why people here in the Colt forum bash on FLGR's???
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I guess if you can only use your thumb to do a basic field strip on a pistol with a flgr and then put it back together, then there would not be much of an issue.
When I carried a Colt XSE LW Commander I ended up:
-replacing the flgr with a normal cap and guide rod.
-as I am part of the right handed majority I lost the ambi safety and put in a small righty only one.
-I put in slotted screws on the grips and changed the grips (only to protect the nice wood grips) with cheap plastic ones.
When I stopped carrying it after 3.5K rounds, I put it back the way it came from the factory. Yes, I could have used it a lot longer and it still looks good, although the cheap plastic grips took some hits.
Now in some promotional stuff I have gotten recently, I did see grips that had the bushing wrench on the inside. Most likely from Midway or Brownells, but that would still mean you would have to take off a grip the make the bushing wrench avail.
With my new "cheap" Commander I bought for carry the only thing I changed is the grips (again to protect the nice wood ones which came on it). I think the new grips were $19.95 from Midway at the time. I get everything else I need and nothing I do not need, plus it only cost $750 new, so if it gets destroyed I will morn only a little, esp now that I have shot it 1.5K rounds and it looks good.
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When I carried a Colt XSE LW Commander I ended up:
-replacing the flgr with a normal cap and guide rod.
-as I am part of the right handed majority I lost the ambi safety and put in a small righty only one.
-I put in slotted screws on the grips and changed the grips (only to protect the nice wood grips) with cheap plastic ones.
When I stopped carrying it after 3.5K rounds, I put it back the way it came from the factory. Yes, I could have used it a lot longer and it still looks good, although the cheap plastic grips took some hits.
Now in some promotional stuff I have gotten recently, I did see grips that had the bushing wrench on the inside. Most likely from Midway or Brownells, but that would still mean you would have to take off a grip the make the bushing wrench avail.
With my new "cheap" Commander I bought for carry the only thing I changed is the grips (again to protect the nice wood ones which came on it). I think the new grips were $19.95 from Midway at the time. I get everything else I need and nothing I do not need, plus it only cost $750 new, so if it gets destroyed I will morn only a little, esp now that I have shot it 1.5K rounds and it looks good.
I have a FLGR in my SW 1911 and don't like it because you do need to use a wrench to take it apart. Also the barrel bushing wrench always wants to slip off and send the recoil spring across the room because you can't grip the gun, wrench and hold your hand over the spring all at the same time unless you're really careful. I have thought about changing it out but have been too lazy to bother. I do like the fact of the plug that you can take it apart without tools.
I don't notice ANY advantage to the FLGR but have heard that recoil springs last a tad longer because they don't bind like with a normal plug and spring.
My friend who has a colt gov't and a combat commander shot my sw1911 side by side with his gov't and noticed mine felt a little front heavy and his felt like it balanced a tad better. Maybe the weight of the guide rod? I don't know.
I don't notice ANY advantage to the FLGR but have heard that recoil springs last a tad longer because they don't bind like with a normal plug and spring.
My friend who has a colt gov't and a combat commander shot my sw1911 side by side with his gov't and noticed mine felt a little front heavy and his felt like it balanced a tad better. Maybe the weight of the guide rod? I don't know.
mr. wolf
Whether a FLGR is a benefit or a hinderence is largely personal opinion. In many cases I like them, and I have added one to a few Colt pistols. The major benefit to a FLGR is it supports the recoil spring along it full length and controls how the spring compresses under recoil. This generally makes the slide cycle smoother and more consistently. This feature makes the FLGR popular with competition shooters, since the more consistent the operation and lock up of the slide the more repeatable your accuracy is. Another feature of this is, since the front of the slide is attached to the frame via the guide rod, there is more resistance to the torque in the barrel as the bullet travels down the barrel. So again there is less variation in how the slide travels during recoil, which enhances the mechanical accuracy of the pistol. My general observation of this is that it occurs to a greater degree in pistols that have a looser slide to frame fit. The FLGR has very little effect on pistols that have a very tight slide to frame fit.
Why don't people like them? First of all, snobbery; John M. Browning did not invent it. Second, they do make field stripping a pistol a bit harder to do, and some versions require tools for the job. Third, it makes press checking the chamber a little harder, and front cocking serrations useful.
Edited to correct typos.
Whether a FLGR is a benefit or a hinderence is largely personal opinion. In many cases I like them, and I have added one to a few Colt pistols. The major benefit to a FLGR is it supports the recoil spring along it full length and controls how the spring compresses under recoil. This generally makes the slide cycle smoother and more consistently. This feature makes the FLGR popular with competition shooters, since the more consistent the operation and lock up of the slide the more repeatable your accuracy is. Another feature of this is, since the front of the slide is attached to the frame via the guide rod, there is more resistance to the torque in the barrel as the bullet travels down the barrel. So again there is less variation in how the slide travels during recoil, which enhances the mechanical accuracy of the pistol. My general observation of this is that it occurs to a greater degree in pistols that have a looser slide to frame fit. The FLGR has very little effect on pistols that have a very tight slide to frame fit.
Why don't people like them? First of all, snobbery; John M. Browning did not invent it. Second, they do make field stripping a pistol a bit harder to do, and some versions require tools for the job. Third, it makes press checking the chamber a little harder, and front cocking serrations useful.
Edited to correct typos.
For self-defense situations, the FLGR will not allow you to recharge your pistol one-handed by pressing the recoil plug on something, such as a table or wall corner, to rack the slide. This could be important if you're injured and you need to do a one-handed recharge. There are other ways to do a one-handed recharge, but keep in mind that something like a heel recharge using the rear sight can be difficult if the rear sight is one of those streamlined, wedge-shaped types.
On the other hand, the FLGR will prevent your pistol from being knocked out of battery and getting a Type 3 jam if you run up to a barrier or something and accidently smack it with the muzzle end, forcing the slide back.
Which of these situations is more important to you is a decision only you can make.
For me, I ditched the FLGR as being not necessary, not very useful in a practical sense, an additional thing to deal with during maintenance, and just another thing to go wrong. However, I don't see a wrong or right answer to the question on whether to keep or discard it.
On the other hand, the FLGR will prevent your pistol from being knocked out of battery and getting a Type 3 jam if you run up to a barrier or something and accidently smack it with the muzzle end, forcing the slide back.
Which of these situations is more important to you is a decision only you can make.
For me, I ditched the FLGR as being not necessary, not very useful in a practical sense, an additional thing to deal with during maintenance, and just another thing to go wrong. However, I don't see a wrong or right answer to the question on whether to keep or discard it.
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Why do most of the other manufactureres of pistols other than 1911's use them? Wouldn't it be cheaper to not use it if there is no benefit. I have owned and still own Colt's with both styles, including one installed in a build up gun, and cannot be sure of any benefit of the FLGR. I could diassemble all of the FLGR Colt's using a BIC pen top with the slide retracted slightly. I think in a pinch I could put up with the pain induced using my thumb nail in a crisis situation, but then why put up with the bother. I just leave it the way it came from the factory.
I was impressed when I first tried my Buddie's Kimber 1911 with the FLGR, it seemed to balance better than my M1991 A1, less nose kick using the same ammo. I installed them on my 2 Delta Elites, I like the result. I bought them from Numrich, 2 piece units, $20. ea. Yep, you have to have an allen wrench to disassemble, but, my guns are reliable, and jam free without a cleaning and 500 rounds through them. So what's the big deal? What I like most is the consistency I gained with the ejected brass, it ejects and holds a nice 3 foot area making it easy to find and pick up, not the case with the stock plunger and spring setup. And consistent ejection is key when you need to find and re-load your rare 10mm brass!!!
John
John
Hello dear friends of this fine forum and greetings from Germany!dakota1911 said:
Well- I MUST (please) put in my comments.
(please excuse my horribbel "English").
Iwill tell you my beginning love to an ORIGINAL 1911- THE COLT! That was 20 years ago as I became a member
in my local shooting club.
Owning a S&W 686 since many years, I MUST have a "1911".
From the beginning, I and my shooting pardner decided, it MUST be a COLT.
So we both bought a Series 80 COLT Gold Cup National Match Enhanced Modell- of course, polished and BLUED!
But now listen:
The "older" "Professionals" in our shooting club rumored:
NO- the COLT is rattling like a bag of nuts!
You MUST have a full length guide rod!
Otherwise you can't hit a barn's door!!!
Well, as newbies we did so and bought a (otherwise well made one) FLGR.
After one year shooting; I replaced the FLGR in favor to the "original" COLT "GI"-rod; shooting not worse and no better as with the after market thing.
My friend, still believing, shooting better with this long "pin", suddenly had misfires.
He Thought, that were the changed primer brand, I recommended, shifting to a new main spring housing.
(with a new stronger spring).
ALL was false!
My shooting pardner put away the FLGR an put in the original COLT guide.
And- you won't believe it:
Even the hardest primer brand made everytime BOOOM!
We tried to analyze this and came to the explanation:
IT WAS the FLGR, that had stiffened the slide out of 90 minutes of angles to one side and the hammer did slide on one side of the slide, so it had not not the full power igniting the cartridge.
Since that time we both were cured and used our COLT's
as they were made in the factory!
OLD GREAT JMB knew what he did!
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923 Posts
Learn something new every day!.I love these forums. His slide to frame fit must be awful loose to have this problem with the FLGR I would GUESS????
ulrik said:
I went to the Cylinder and Slide pistolsmith school about four years ago. A really good time BTW. Anyway while there Bill told us that he prefers the full length rods because of a malfuction which he once observed. A pistol was fired and the plug portion somehow became cocked and imbedded itself into the short rod. The pistol stopped fuctioning. I have never heard of any other times of such a malfuction occuring but I would never discount what Bill says when it comes to a 1911. To this day I can't even figer out how that would occur?:scratch: I still prefer the stock two piece units and use them in my 1911's although the pistol which we built while there uses a FLGR.
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