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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I didn't get the Glock 29 or 30 after all the help you guys gave me. Instead, the history bug bit me and I got a T/C (American made) Hawken .50 cal flintlock rifle.

I fell in love with blackpowder when I bought a Colt Blackpowder Arms 1860 Army percussion revolver a few years ago. Man, is it fun. I didn't have a blackpowder rifle, so being familiar with percussion, I went with the flintlock.

Took her to the range today and I honestly felt honored and humbled to be able to partake of these traditional, historic-type firearms.

A little research showed me that the flintlock dates to about 1607. The percussion dates to about 1830. Isn't it odd that percussion arms are much more popular than flint when flint reigned supreme for over 220 years, while the percussion only lasted about 30? Sorry about the digression, but this fact is so odd. It's probably our love and fascination with the war between the states.

I suggest you try blackpowder. It is a lot of fun and makes one very instrospective in regard to who we are and the road that led us here. The whole lineage thing becomes much easier to grasp.

The Glock 30 will come later when I have some extra money.

Take care,
Rob
 

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I do love the history of the blackpowder, after all, if it weren't for that, would we have cartridge fired weapons today? I just don't like the idea of having to clean my gun after 4 or 5 shots. Have a great time with your new T/C!

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"Double-action in an auto pistol seems to me an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem." -Jeff Cooper G&A mag Oct. 1973
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Originally posted by Kimber45:
Have a great time with your new T/C!
Thanks. I did. And that whole big delay thing is a myth. The gun fired very quickly after pulling the trigger, surely not as fast as a modern cartridge, but almost as fast. Just a fraction of a dealy. The common misconception is that you can pull the trigger, step away to eat lunch, and return in time to point the rifle just as it discharges. It's all a myth.

Rob
 

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y'know, i've been thinking of getting into flintlocks also. how much did you spend and what 's the cost on supplies (balls, powder, etc), and what supplies do you need? how about smoke? a lot produced to offend surrounding riflemen? ohyeah, ffl required to purchase? i have no idea what else to ask. let me know all you know. thanks.


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Nothing like the smell of Breakfree to make my day complete.

[This message has been edited by BOLANTEJ (edited 10-17-2001).]
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by BOLANTEJ:
y'know, i've been thinking of getting into flintlocks also.
Great. It is a whole lot of fun.

how much did you spend and what 's the cost on supplies (balls, powder, etc), and what supplies do you need?
I bought it at the Cabela's superstore in Dundee, Michigan. They had an awesome selection of guns. Hundreds. The blackpowder long guns I saw range anywhere between $199-$799. The T/C I bought was $419 in flint and $399 in percussion (it seems a lot of makers are that way, offering a particular model in flint or percussion). My gun is not historically correct, meaning it has a rifled barrel and modern iron sights. It looks historic, though. I wanted accuracy (and it is accurate) more than historical correctness at this time, but there are models out there that are historically correct. Traditions offers a flintlock that looks modern--laminate stock, fiber-optic looking sights. It looks very sharp.

The supplies that are absolutely necessary:

FFg (called 2F) blackpowder for the main charge

FFFFg (called 4F) blackpowder for the pan (ignition) charge

powder measure (brass cylinder graduated in 5 or 10 grain increments)

patches (not cleaning, but the ones that hold the ball tightly in the barrel.)

projectile balls of the appropriate diameter

ball starter

Patch worm (helical, auger-looking device that extracts lost patches from the barrel)

piece of flint or agate (pronounced aggit)

touchhole pick


Things that are nearly absolutely necessary:

blackpowder cleaning solvent or the guy told me I can use a homemade brew of 1/3 isopropyl alcohol, 1/3 vinegar, and 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap

cleaning jag, brush, patches (The ramrod on mine is threaded on the ends to accomodate the cleaning tips and patch worm. So a seperate cleaning rod may not be necessary on the gun you choose.)

FFFG powder measure (smaller than main charge measure)

powder flask or horn

pipe cleaners and Q-tips

The above supplies (all of them) cost $110. So I left the store, excluding tax, $530 lighter. That is comparable to a modern firearm obviously. If you are held to a strict budget, the Italian rifles for $199 didn't look all that bad. They had a nice finish, nice parts fit, and seemed to feel tight. The super long, historically accurate guns were the ones that cost big money, and they looked solid as a rock. I mean they looked beautiful. They were Italian, too, but of a much better quality.

how about smoke? a lot produced to offend surrounding riflemen?
There is a fair amount, but it is not overwhelming. I don't think there is enough to offend anybody.

ohyeah, ffl required to purchase?
You show you are from PRK. I take that to mean People's Republic of Kalifornia. Believe it or not, the four states that make you jump through hoops are Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, and my state of Michigan. I belive you can order a blackpowder through the mail if you live in sunny CA. Figure that one out!!!

i have no idea what else to ask.
Read the owners manual very carefully, I'm sure a lot of your questions will be answered there, like how load the main charge, how to load the pan charge, how much powder to use in each, how to position the flint in the cock jaws, safety concerns, petroleum-based lubes vs. natural lubes, etc.... If you think of anything else, let me know.

Rob

[This message has been edited by In service to His Majesty (edited 10-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by In service to His Majesty (edited 10-17-2001).]
 

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I am also another one who has been "bit" by the flintlock bug.

I recently acquired a Lyman Trade Rifle in .50 caliber flintlock configuration. It is a great gun, and one that will show you just how important it is to follow-through and hold steady.

Even though the percussion cap was invented in the 1790's, it did not come into widespread use until about 1830. I believe that some Hawken rifles were made in percussion as early as 1810. Yet, even though percussion has a much faster lock time, and is inherently more reliable, many backwoodsmen refused to change over to percussion for many years. This was due to the fact that carrying percussion caps in any type of quantity could be dangerous as well as the fact that once you ran out of caps you were defenseless. A new piece of flint could be knapped if needed, but you couldn't manufacture your own caps.

There is something special about pouring a small charge of FFFFg into the pan and closing the frizzen. The "flash....boom" of a flintlock is much more satisfying than the "click, bang" of a percussion arm.
 

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Question from the back row:

How do you double-tap someone? Shoot once, then hit him over the head with the buttstock?


Sorry, just being a smartass. I've had the urge to shoot something in blackpowder as well, but more along the lines of a cap-n-ball revolver. Problem is, there's no good outdoor ranges around here. All my shooting is done indoors these days, where the smoke would indeed be a problem.

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[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 10-17-2001).]
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by Sistema1927:
There is something special about pouring a small charge of FFFFg into the pan and closing the frizzen. The "flash....boom" of a flintlock is much more satisfying than the "click, bang" of a percussion arm.
Very true. In this rush rush hurry world, I wish more people would slow down. If more people were to try blackpowder, the patience required might be carried over into other facets of their lives. There is such a calming and humbling aspect to it all. Just wishful thinking, I guess.

Take very good care of yourself,
Rob
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by dsk:
How do you double-tap someone? Shoot once, then hit him over the head with the buttstock?
Classic! Absolutely classic! I can just picture this in a Mel Brooks movie.

I've had the urge to shoot something in blackpowder as well, but more along the lines of a cap-n-ball revolver. Problem is...All my shooting is done indoors these days, where the smoke would indeed be a problem.
I shoot both my cap-and-ball revolver and flintlock at an indoor range. I think their primary concerns are bullet constuction and bullet velocity. I'm shooting pure lead balls (relatively soft) that with 60 grains of FFg goes around 1400 fps, though I could load them with a maximum of 110 grains at 2000 fps. I wouldn't do this out of respect for the range owner. Even though I might get away with it, it would be less than ethical.

Lead contamination (TMJ bullets replacing FMJ) and smoke are real concerns on the part of the ranges, but they don't seem to mind these as much as construction and velocity.

Call your local indoor range and ask them. Maybe they will give you the okay.

Take care,
Rob


[This message has been edited by In service to His Majesty (edited 10-17-2001).]
 

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thanks for the informative reply. i will check in my cabela's catalog and check with them concerning delivery to my great state.
take care and have fun. i'll let you all know when i get mine goin'.

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Nothing like the smell of Breakfree to make my day complete.
 
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