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Learning to shoot a 1911 well is (or should be) a right of passage for a person just like tying a tie, driving a standard transmission and drinking bourbon neat.
 

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Knocking bowling pins off the table or knocking steel plates over has little to do with stopping a human being.
I think it brings to light a lot more than you give it credit for. This is no paper target, this is no steel plate, this is something that you have to hit square and it will absorb much of the energy just like a human.

Many of the guys I shoot with are ex-LEO and veterans. I talk terminal ballistics with them a lot. The 45 is still the king of the three popular calibers. The only way to argue 9mm is in round count, period.

If you want to know the real king of the event that shows up on Revolver night. The 44 Mag is stunning. 357 good but 44 Mag is deadly.
 

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I am going to bet that every person who has paid $1,500 or more for 1911 in 45 has a favorite J frame 38 or a tiny 9mm or a tiny 380 they slip into a pocket when the go to the local stop and rob for gas or a bag of ice. I am also willing to bet that everyone who owns a $500 1911 has one of those little pocket stuffer guns also.

My first two handguns in center fire in 1974 were a 357 Ruger Security Six and a Colt Satin Nickle Commander. I have had 1911s in 45 since that time. I carried them in the Army MPs and with 3 different badges over time. I am a 1911 45 guy, why I am here. To enjoy the many 1911 experts that flock to this site. I learn something new every day. The hard core guys will keep the 1911 and the 45 alive forever, much like the single action 45 Colt, always going to be here.

That said, a 39 ounce handgun that is more than 8 inches long does not fit into anybody's pocket and no, you cannot keep your jogging pants up when you jog down the beach with that gun in a IWB holster.

Law enforcement at least at the federal level is not going to go back to 45 or 1911. The 1911 in 45 acp will break their wrist. It is 84 times more likely t0 cause carpel tunnel that typing on a digital keyboard. Federal law enforcement officers are not going to take that risk. Also, no longer can anybody expect to survive a gunfight with only 8+1 rounds of 45 acp. A duty gun must have at least 15+1 and 2 spare magazines and any real officer will have 3+4 additional spare mags in the console of his patrol unit. Just the way it is. Hopefully they will develop plastic cases and plastic or aluminum bullets and weightless powder so the 9mm carry gun will not be so darn heavy. Really.

The future of the 45 acp as a cartridge will always be there. Some people actually still buy revolvers in that caliber. I think I have 3 around here. Ruger still markets them and Talo and Williams and Lipsey's and other company's demand special runs of Rugers with both the 45 Colt and the 45 acp cylinder. I have one of those too. Ruger sells 13 different cowboy guns that take the 45 acp. Here is a cute one, it ONLY chambers the 45 acp, everybody would like to have one of those.

Trigger Air gun Gun barrel Gun accessory Automotive design



The 1911 style of gun will always be here because of the way God made the human hand, 1911 was created to fit that hand perfectly, not something you want to scoff at. Just the way it is. It is a rule, much like gravity stuff always falls in downward direction. Better than any compass you may not know which way is north but gravity will always tell you accurately which way is down. The 1911 frame is not just said to be a natural fit, it is.

Just got a flyer this morning of a new one from SW. Anyone know anything about this one? No grip safety so not for me, but cute.

Trigger Air gun Grey Gun barrel Gun accessory

Anyway just my opinion off the top of my head. My thoughts may improve after I have had my coffee.....keep safe.
 

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It seems like .45 ACP is rapidly declining as a caliber. In the last two years, according to atf reports, only around 12% of firearms produced were in calibers larger than 9mm and up to .50 cal. This is a considerable downward trend, considering that around 5-10 years ago, the percentage was around 40%. Granted, the .40 SW enthusiasm seems to be fading as well.

What is everyone’s prediction on the future of the 1911? Will 45 be a thing of the past, being replaced by 9mm and 10mm? Is enthusiasm only among older folks (I happen to be young, so I hope this isn’t the case...)?
I’d be interested to see what everyone predicts as far as future trends go.
I think the economy has a lot to say about gun sales going to lower calibers, I remember when 223's were converting to 22's.
 

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I think it brings to light a lot more than you give it credit for. This is no paper target, this is no steel plate, this is something that you have to hit square and it will absorb much of the energy just like a human.

Many of the guys I shoot with are ex-LEO and veterans. I talk terminal ballistics with them a lot. The 45 is still the king of the three popular calibers. The only way to argue 9mm is in round count, period.

If you want to know the real king of the event that shows up on Revolver night. The 44 Mag is stunning. 357 good but 44 Mag is deadly.
And yet when ammunition manufacturers test their hunting loads and defense/combat loads, they use calibrated ballistic gels instead of seeing how fast and far bowling pins flying off the tables. Those silly science people.
 

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I think it brings to light a lot more than you give it credit for. This is no paper target, this is no steel plate, this is something that you have to hit square and it will absorb much of the energy just like a human.
The comments about bowling pins reminds me of an informal shoot-off I had with two other guys some 30 years ago. I was at the range shooting a .45 Commander when two other guys who were shooting bowling pins off a table invited me to join them. One of them had a 9mm Hi-Power Practical, while the other guy was proudly showing off his new .40 S&W 4006. The guy with the Hi-Power had a hell of a time getting the pins to fall over. He'd hit them square and they'd just rock around a little. They'd only fall if he hit them just right. The other fellow with the .40 had much better luck, knocking them over fairly consistently. But my .45 knocked them clean off the table with a solid hit every single time. The poor guy with the 9mm said he was ready to sell his Hi-Power after that.

Say whatever you want about the relevance of shooting bowling pins versus bad guys, but there were three shooters there that day who were believers in bullet momentum.
 

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Well stated dsk.

I just got back from shooting pins again tonight. Tonight was revolver night. Those with either a 44 Mag or 357 had no trouble knocking pins into the next county. Many shooters still were shooting 9mm pistols with mixed results. A few also were shooting 45 ACP pistols and like dsk mentioned they went flying.

Let me share another true story with you. My nephew is an anesthesiologist for an emergency room in SLC. He has seen many gunshot cases but the one that haunts him is the woman who survived being shot 9 times with a 9mm handgun. She was slightly overweight but still bullet penetration was low. While he is happy she survived it bothers him because he is carrying a 9mm as his daily carry. Contrast that with his other case where a big guy was killed with one 45 ACP to the chest. Now, he is asking me about 45s and which one I would recommend for daily carry.
 

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He has seen many gunshot cases but the one that haunts him is the woman who survived being shot 9 times with a 9mm handgun. She was slightly overweight but still bullet penetration was low.
He ever said where on her body those 9 shots landed? Was she slightly overweight enough to cause under penetration to a thoracic cavity?
 

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He ever said where on her body those 9 shots landed? Was she slightly overweight enough to cause under penetration to a thoracic cavity?
I can find out. My guess was some where right in the thoracic cavity.
 

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1911s and AR-15. I like building and tinkering.
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Well stated dsk.

I just got back from shooting pins again tonight. Tonight was revolver night. Those with either a 44 Mag or 357 had no trouble knocking pins into the next county. Many shooters still were shooting 9mm pistols with mixed results. A few also were shooting 45 ACP pistols and like dsk mentioned they went flying.

Let me share another true story with you. My nephew is an anesthesiologist for an emergency room in SLC. He has seen many gunshot cases but the one that haunts him is the woman who survived being shot 9 times with a 9mm handgun. She was slightly overweight but still bullet penetration was low. While he is happy she survived it bothers him because he is carrying a 9mm as his daily carry. Contrast that with his other case where a big guy was killed with one 45 ACP to the chest. Now, he is asking me about 45s and which one I would recommend for daily carry.
One of the things that drives me crazy about stopping power statistics is that they list the caliber being used, but not the types. Yes, I know that 45 has more stopping power than a traditional 9mm, but there are plenty of 9mm rounds out there that will do the job just fine. After all, it's mostly about penetration rather than hydrostatic shock and all that.

All calibers 380 acp and up have about the same stopping power, statistically speaking, meaning that they stop the threat within a certain # of rounds fired, but we all know that certain types just do better than others.

I have no problem carrying 45 acp, 9mm, or 380 acp, because I know that with my choice of ammo, it'll penetrate. In fact, I've decided that my 3rd Para frame build will be a 45 acp commander. The reason why is simple....


....because I've already bought the magazines for it. Yeah, that's the only reason. I was actually thinking about going 38 super, but then I remembered that I bought the mags and I went "Well... CRAP!"
 

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So, has our 'think tank' made a final determination? Do we scuttle the American 'fearsome and formidable forty-five' in favor of the 'emaciated and emasculated Euro-pellet'? If ruled to be superannuated, is it proper form to now melt down our Colt 1911s? What is the proper way to dispose of our stockpiles of .45 ACP ammo? I say we make a show of it...... perhaps caravan to Niagara Falls and, at the appointed time, pitch ammo cans full of .45 ACP over the rail as
"Alexander's Ragtime Band" plays in the background (top hit in 1911) and farewell salutes are fired with plastic 9mm pistols! If you're gonna go, might as well go big, I say!!! On the plus side, though, once we've done away with the .45 ACP as a source of eternal angst, everyone's blood pressure should return to normal and we can then focus on more important topics such as:

'Plastic Pistol Trigger Dongle - Best Thing Since Sliced Bread, or Bred from the Bile of Satan?" (My next article for Housewife's Journal magazine).

Personally, I tend to be immune to marketing. I don't typically care about what gets touted as the latest and greatest, or the most torture tested, or the most Spec Ops used, or whatever else the flavor of the day might be. I tend to disregard mass hysteria as well - whether it's with regard to caliber choice or to viruses. I may be in the minority with this philosophy, but my take is that nearly any typical pistol caliber - whether brand new or century old - is effective enough for the challenges that we mere civilians are likely to face. Thankfully for us, we're not facing Banzai charges, or Moro warriors, or Mongol Hordes. If called upon, our handguns will more than likely be defending us from other 'westerners' who, under normal circumstances, don't wish to be shot either. The rule of thumb ought to be: get good, really good, with whatever you use. That approach is going to give you a much better return on investment than fixating on diameter, weight, velocity, or projectile profile differences.

But hell, what do I know? Reckon I'll go out back and torture-test a Para Ordnance in a block of ice. I do so strive to keep up with the 'youtube' Joneses as best I can!! :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
 

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So, has our 'think tank' made a final determination? Do we scuttle the American 'fearsome and formidable forty-five' in favor of the 'emaciated and emasculated Euro-pellet'? If ruled to be superannuated, is it proper form to now melt down our Colt 1911s? What is the proper way to dispose of our stockpiles of .45 ACP ammo? I say we make a show of it...... perhaps caravan to Niagara Falls and, at the appointed time, pitch ammo cans full of .45 ACP over the rail as
"Alexander's Ragtime Band" plays in the background (top hit in 1911) and farewell salutes are fired with plastic 9mm pistols! If you're gonna go, might as well go big, I say!!! On the plus side, though, once we've done away with the .45 ACP as a source of eternal angst, everyone's blood pressure should return to normal and we can then focus on more important topics such as:

'Plastic Pistol Trigger Dongle - Best Thing Since Sliced Bread, or Bred from the Bile of Satan?" (My next article for Housewife's Journal magazine).

Personally, I tend to be immune to marketing. I don't typically care about what gets touted as the latest and greatest, or the most torture tested, or the most Spec Ops used, or whatever else the flavor of the day might be. I tend to disregard mass hysteria as well - whether it's with regard to caliber choice or to viruses. I may be in the minority with this philosophy, but my take is that nearly any typical pistol caliber - whether brand new or century old - is effective enough for the challenges that we mere civilians are likely to face. Thankfully for us, we're not facing Banzai charges, or Moro warriors, or Mongol Hordes. If called upon, our handguns will more than likely be defending us from other 'westerners' who, under normal circumstances, don't wish to be shot either. The rule of thumb ought to be: get good, really good, with whatever you use. That approach is going to give you a much better return on investment than fixating on diameter, weight, velocity, or projectile profile differences.

But hell, what do I know? Reckon I'll go out back and torture-test a Para Ordnance in a block of ice. I do so strive to keep up with the 'youtube' Joneses as best I can!! :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
I’m not the type that go Gaga-eyed over what’s latest and cool, and while I’m not a guns expert…I think that the 9mm Parabellum predated the .45ACP by at least two or three years.
 

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I’m not the type that go Gaga-eyed over what’s latest and cool, and while I’m not a guns expert…I think that the 9mm Parabellum predated the .45ACP by at least two or three years.

By a few years, yes. My 'latest and greatest' comment wasn't with regard to the 9mm caliber.
 

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45 is going nowhere... it survived all the novelty rounds..
Problem now is just price per round... Good thing I've been stocking up for years.
 

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I owned a SIG 320 with X-Carry grip for about two weeks before coming to the realization I hate the trigger and sold it to a work colleague.

I bought my son a SIG M17 as a graduation and commissioning present. He had it tricked out as a National Match - President's Match - Excellence-in-Competition leg pistol. He bought a second to use as a trainer for the Army Championships. I figured the GI fire control (with thumb safety) must be different and asked to try the trigger.

After making a sour face and thinking "Nope - nope - nope," I'll stick to my 1911, legacy SIGs (226 and 228), M9 (thick as it is), and Glocks, thanks.
 

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It seems like .45 ACP is rapidly declining as a caliber. In the last two years, according to atf reports, only around 12% of firearms produced were in calibers larger than 9mm and up to .50 cal. This is a considerable downward trend, considering that around 5-10 years ago, the percentage was around 40%. Granted, the .40 SW enthusiasm seems to be fading as well.

What is everyone’s prediction on the future of the 1911? Will 45 be a thing of the past, being replaced by 9mm and 10mm? Is enthusiasm only among older folks (I happen to be young, so I hope this isn’t the case...)?
I’d be interested to see what everyone predicts as far as future trends go.
The more feminine gun purchasers are the less gun they will desire a full size powerful hand gun. The smaller and weaker they are, the less they are capable of handling full power handguns.

At least that is what the police and FBI say about their new recruits from the general population. Thus, they issue 9mm sidearms. I'd say the same thing plays out in the general gun community judging from what they post in gun forums. If someone purchases a full power firearm, nearly the first question they ask is how they shoot low power ammunition or make low power ammunition for it. Some people will before they have ever even shot the gun they just bought.
 
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