You need to be clearer.
Feed issues . What is it doing ? post pics. if possible.
Feed issues . What is it doing ? post pics. if possible.
Girsan 1911 feed issues
Hello, new owner of a Girsan 1911 as of a couple days ago. I've been reading up on the piece and it seems there's an overwhelming consensus that the recoil spring is a consideration of replacement. There's an old forum from 2013 discussing the issue but I didn't see a follow-up to the resolution, so here we are.
I'm curious if the spring replacement helped anyone, if there's a combination of upgrades that anyone would recommend (such as the magazine, extractor, polishing feed ramp etc). What springs have you tried (round, flat wire), and is the standard 16lb spring the suggested replacement?
This is a gun I want to learn on and practice with, I'm not here to hear "get a better gun" or anything similar. I realize the faults with the gun, yes there's better things out there, but this is what I have and am financially able to work with at the moment (trust me I would LOVE to own a SIG, but I cannot afford one at the moment).
I'm curious if the spring replacement helped anyone, if there's a combination of upgrades that anyone would recommend (such as the magazine, extractor, polishing feed ramp etc). What springs have you tried (round, flat wire), and is the standard 16lb spring the suggested replacement?
This is a gun I want to learn on and practice with, I'm not here to hear "get a better gun" or anything similar. I realize the faults with the gun, yes there's better things out there, but this is what I have and am financially able to work with at the moment (trust me I would LOVE to own a SIG, but I cannot afford one at the moment).
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If changing a recoil spring (assuming it isn't broken and isn't WAY out of spec) fixes your feed problem there's a 99+% chance that wasn't what was really causing the problem and all you did was get lucky and put a band-aid on it (like dumping a can of somebody's "wonder lube" in your car's crankcase to try to fix a mechanical problem) as the recoil spring is the least likely primary source of "feeding problems". The big 3 are the other things you mentioned. Look at them first. Most companies ship their full size .45 1911's with a 15 or 16 lb. spring and that would be considered "standard". Recoil springs are only outdone by lubricants as seemingly a source of morbid fascination these days as solutions for all the ills that beset the 1911 automatic pistol.I'm curious if the spring replacement helped anyone, if there's a combination of upgrades that anyone would recommend (such as the magazine, extractor, polishing feed ramp etc). What springs have you tried (round, flat wire), and is the standard 16lb spring the suggested replacement?
Man I love these types of new 1911 owners. I was there and did the same thing, replacing recoil springs and trying to "polish the feed ramp" and stuff. When I really needed extractor work.
Start here, Steve in Allentown Extractor fitting. Read that twice. Open up the pistol, look at the extractor, and get the extractor out. Read the sticky again and understand what the geometry means and how it relates to the pistol. Look at the part and see the shape and bevels and areas that may need tuning. You can even see brass marks where the cartridge rim engages the extractor. The extractor is a live part that actually springs/bends/moves a little every time a round engages it.
The extractor causes far more problems feeding and ejecting than a recoil spring does. If the extractor is not in spec then everything else will be off. A full size 1911 with standard ammo will probably run with a recoil of anywhere from 14lbs to 18lbs, if the extractor is right.
Test fire using the method in the sticky above. 1 round in chamber, drop the mag, fire the pistol. Repeat with the remaining rounds using the same position and hold and target. If an empty case falls through the magwell, the extractor needs help. If it doesn't eject between 3:00 and 5:00 and say, 4-7 feet away, your extractor needs help. If the empty case gets slammed between the slide and barrel, your extractor needs help. Using the mag in the gun can mask problems because the upcoming round can push the empty case up. The no mag shot vs. mag in should result in practically identical ejection patterns.
Welcome to the rabbit hole OP. I am an extractor junkie, and I sing the praises of properly tuning the extractor before anything else. I have been known to replace the firing pin stop and tune the extractor before I even put a live round into the pistol. My new Garrison a few weeks ago, I did just that, because the geometry was not correct. I fixed it, the pistol has 200 rounds now without a single failure to feed, eject, or cycle, using 4 different brands of mags and 3 different brands of ammo.
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Start here, Steve in Allentown Extractor fitting. Read that twice. Open up the pistol, look at the extractor, and get the extractor out. Read the sticky again and understand what the geometry means and how it relates to the pistol. Look at the part and see the shape and bevels and areas that may need tuning. You can even see brass marks where the cartridge rim engages the extractor. The extractor is a live part that actually springs/bends/moves a little every time a round engages it.
The extractor causes far more problems feeding and ejecting than a recoil spring does. If the extractor is not in spec then everything else will be off. A full size 1911 with standard ammo will probably run with a recoil of anywhere from 14lbs to 18lbs, if the extractor is right.
Test fire using the method in the sticky above. 1 round in chamber, drop the mag, fire the pistol. Repeat with the remaining rounds using the same position and hold and target. If an empty case falls through the magwell, the extractor needs help. If it doesn't eject between 3:00 and 5:00 and say, 4-7 feet away, your extractor needs help. If the empty case gets slammed between the slide and barrel, your extractor needs help. Using the mag in the gun can mask problems because the upcoming round can push the empty case up. The no mag shot vs. mag in should result in practically identical ejection patterns.
Welcome to the rabbit hole OP. I am an extractor junkie, and I sing the praises of properly tuning the extractor before anything else. I have been known to replace the firing pin stop and tune the extractor before I even put a live round into the pistol. My new Garrison a few weeks ago, I did just that, because the geometry was not correct. I fixed it, the pistol has 200 rounds now without a single failure to feed, eject, or cycle, using 4 different brands of mags and 3 different brands of ammo.
Is you pistol malfunctioning? Are you simply stating concerns about what you’ve read or heard? Shoot it first and let us know if you encounter an actual problem!Hello, new owner of a Girsan 1911 as of a couple days ago. I've been reading up on the piece and it seems there's an overwhelming consensus that the recoil spring is a consideration of replacement. There's an old forum from 2013 discussing the issue but I didn't see a follow-up to the resolution, so here we are.
I'm curious if the spring replacement helped anyone, if there's a combination of upgrades that anyone would recommend (such as the magazine, extractor, polishing feed ramp etc). What springs have you tried (round, flat wire), and is the standard 16lb spring the suggested replacement?
This is a gun I want to learn on and practice with, I'm not here to hear "get a better gun" or anything similar. I realize the faults with the gun, yes there's better things out there, but this is what I have and am financially able to work with at the moment (trust me I would LOVE to own a SIG, but I cannot afford one at the moment).
Presently Tisas and Girsan are on the top of their game when you compare their offerings side by side with pistols costing two and three times more!
I just want to say, thank you for being so detailed with your explanation. I better understand the importance of the extractor and the given tolerances.Man I love these types of new 1911 owners. I was there and did the same thing, replacing recoil springs and trying to "polish the feed ramp" and stuff. When I really needed extractor work.
Start here, Steve in Allentown Extractor fitting. Read that twice. Open up the pistol, look at the extractor, and get the extractor out. Read the sticky again and understand what the geometry means and how it relates to the pistol. Look at the part and see the shape and bevels and areas that may need tuning. You can even see brass marks where the cartridge rim engages the extractor. The extractor is a live part that actually springs/bends/moves a little every time a round engages it.
The extractor causes far more problems feeding and ejecting than a recoil spring does. If the extractor is not in spec then everything else will be off. A full size 1911 with standard ammo will probably run with a recoil of anywhere from 14lbs to 18lbs, if the extractor is right.
Test fire using the method in the sticky above. 1 round in chamber, drop the mag, fire the pistol. Repeat with the remaining rounds using the same position and hold and target. If an empty case falls through the magwell, the extractor needs help. If it doesn't eject between 3:00 and 5:00 and say, 4-7 feet away, your extractor needs help. If the empty case gets slammed between the slide and barrel, your extractor needs help. Using the mag in the gun can mask problems because the upcoming round can push the empty case up. The no mag shot vs. mag in should result in practically identical ejection patterns.
Welcome to the rabbit hole OP. I am an extractor junkie, and I sing the praises of properly tuning the extractor before anything else. I have been known to replace the firing pin stop and tune the extractor before I even put a live round into the pistol. My new Garrison a few weeks ago, I did just that, because the geometry was not correct. I fixed it, the pistol has 200 rounds now without a single failure to feed, eject, or cycle, using 4 different brands of mags and 3 different brands of ammo.
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While I believe I may have really lucked out this weekend, I was able to fire a full box of FMJ through the pistol without any hiccups (original magazine and Mag-Car 10 round), I was very pleasantly surprised. This was done after a thorough cleaning and lube. I plan to repeat that this weekend without cleaning to see if it performs the same way with a little dust. I will also fire the gun using the method you described (chamber a round, drop the mag, fire, repeat) and pay close attention to how the casings are ejected.
I suppose I should also collect the casings to observe the contact areas and compare them to what you have pictured. It seems like the reason the casings may not eject is because the tolerance of the extractor being too tight to the casing, not giving enough room for the casing to extract freely (I am mostly basing the observation on the final picture in your comment) ?
Sorry for any dumb questions, I am learning, as stated before. That being said, I don't have the tools, or a lot of experience polishing or adjusting parts to such specifics as highlighted in the Steve in Allentown Extractor Fitting post you linked for me. If I do end up coming into problems with it I may have a smith look at it.
So far so good! Though I only put 50 rounds through it so far, I haven't had a single issue.Is you pistol malfunctioning? Are you simply stating concerns about what you’ve read or heard? Shoot it first and let us know if you encounter an actual problem!
Presently Tisas and Girsan are on the top of their game when you compare their offerings side by side with pistols costing two and three times more!
And yeah, I was reading up and watching YT reviews and seeing lots of different posts/vids about issues with them, so maybe I psyched myself out! We will see where it stands after I throw a few hundred more rounds through it.
I just want to say, thank you for being so detailed with your explanation. I better understand the importance of the extractor and the given tolerances.
While I believe I may have really lucked out this weekend, I was able to fire a full box of FMJ through the pistol without any hiccups (original magazine and Mag-Car 10 round), I was very pleasantly surprised. This was done after a thorough cleaning and lube. I plan to repeat that this weekend without cleaning to see if it performs the same way with a little dust. I will also fire the gun using the method you described (chamber a round, drop the mag, fire, repeat) and pay close attention to how the casings are ejected.
I suppose I should also collect the casings to observe the contact areas and compare them to what you have pictured. It seems like the reason the casings may not eject is because the tolerance of the extractor being too tight to the casing, not giving enough room for the casing to extract freely (I am mostly basing the observation on the final picture in your comment) ?
Sorry for any dumb questions, I am learning, as stated before. That being said, I don't have the tools, or a lot of experience polishing or adjusting parts to such specifics as highlighted in the Steve in Allentown Extractor Fitting post you linked for me. If I do end up coming into problems with it I may have a smith look at it.
The extractor in the last pic was too close to the breech, as well as the hook/nose was too tall and touching the case. Had I moved the extractor forward to gain clearance there, the hook would have been hitting even worse. And yes if the hook to breech distance is too tight, the case rim could have trouble sliding up under the hook and cause feed problems. The before and after pics are after I fixed the hook clearance and then replaced the firing pin stop which allowed me to move the extractor forward enough to get the proper HTBD.
“If it isn’t broke…”I just want to say, thank you for being so detailed with your explanation. I better understand the importance of the extractor and the given tolerances.
While I believe I may have really lucked out this weekend, I was able to fire a full box of FMJ through the pistol without any hiccups (original magazine and Mag-Car 10 round), I was very pleasantly surprised. This was done after a thorough cleaning and lube. I plan to repeat that this weekend without cleaning to see if it performs the same way with a little dust. I will also fire the gun using the method you described (chamber a round, drop the mag, fire, repeat) and pay close attention to how the casings are ejected.
I suppose I should also collect the casings to observe the contact areas and compare them to what you have pictured. It seems like the reason the casings may not eject is because the tolerance of the extractor being too tight to the casing, not giving enough room for the casing to extract freely (I am mostly basing the observation on the final picture in your comment) ?
Sorry for any dumb questions, I am learning, as stated before. That being said, I don't have the tools, or a lot of experience polishing or adjusting parts to such specifics as highlighted in the Steve in Allentown Extractor Fitting post you linked for me. If I do end up coming into problems with it I may have a smith look at it.
A thorough clean and lube is the first thing I do with every new pistol. The second thing I do is shoot it. New guns might come a little tight and need to wear in. Give it a few hundred rounds to break in. If it's something you plan to carry or use for home defense, it needs to be shot and vetted for reliability anyway. But assuming it's a brand new gun it probably shouldn't need it's recoil spring replaced. Not any time soon anyway.I just want to say, thank you for being so detailed with your explanation. I better understand the importance of the extractor and the given tolerances.
While I believe I may have really lucked out this weekend, I was able to fire a full box of FMJ through the pistol without any hiccups (original magazine and Mag-Car 10 round), I was very pleasantly surprised. This was done after a thorough cleaning and lube. I plan to repeat that this weekend without cleaning to see if it performs the same way with a little dust. I will also fire the gun using the method you described (chamber a round, drop the mag, fire, repeat) and pay close attention to how the casings are ejected.
I suppose I should also collect the casings to observe the contact areas and compare them to what you have pictured. It seems like the reason the casings may not eject is because the tolerance of the extractor being too tight to the casing, not giving enough room for the casing to extract freely (I am mostly basing the observation on the final picture in your comment) ?
Sorry for any dumb questions, I am learning, as stated before. That being said, I don't have the tools, or a lot of experience polishing or adjusting parts to such specifics as highlighted in the Steve in Allentown Extractor Fitting post you linked for me. If I do end up coming into problems with it I may have a smith look at it.
You're correct I believe about the spring, I probably don't need to do anything with that. I think I was absorbing a lot of misinformation in my ignorance. Seems the extractor would be the cause of any issues I may have.If changing a recoil spring (assuming it isn't broken and isn't WAY out of spec) fixes your feed problem there's a 99+% chance that wasn't what was really causing the problem and all you did was get lucky and put a band-aid on it (like dumping a can of somebody's "wonder lube" in your car's crankcase to try to fix a mechanical problem) as the recoil spring is the least likely primary source of "feeding problems". The big 3 are the other things you mentioned. Look at them first. Most companies ship their full size .45 1911's with a 15 or 16 lb. spring and that would be considered "standard". Recoil springs are only outdone by lubricants as seemingly a source of morbid fascination these days as solutions for all the ills that beset the 1911 automatic pistol.
I'm wondering what you think of the spacing in mine currently. Let me know if you need a different perspective in the photoThe extractor in the last pic was too close to the breech, as well as the hook/nose was too tall and touching the case. Had I moved the extractor forward to gain clearance there, the hook would have been hitting even worse. And yes if the hook to breech distance is too tight, the case rim could have trouble sliding up under the hook and cause feed problems. The before and after pics are after I fixed the hook clearance and then replaced the firing pin stop which allowed me to move the extractor forward enough to get the proper HTBD.
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The extractor hook is not touching the case, that is a good thing. The measurement between the hook underside and the breech is too small to eye ball it.
Just wanted to leave an update.
I put 200 rounds through the 1911 over the weekend, all from a cheapo bulk bucket from Bass Pro.
I did 3 mag dumps back to back just to see if I would have any problems from repetition or heat.
I didn't even clean the gun from the last time I put 50 rounds through it, just to increase the chances of something happening.
I didn't have a single issue feeding, extracting, or shooting the gun.
Maybe I caught some good fortune, or maybe there's nothing wrong with the gun after all.
All the negative feedback I have seen really makes me wonder after it performing like that.
Thank you all for the feedback so far, really cool of you all.
Shoutout to @theraptur for the really extensive information you threw at me. You've really done your homework on the subject, thanks for that!
I put 200 rounds through the 1911 over the weekend, all from a cheapo bulk bucket from Bass Pro.
I did 3 mag dumps back to back just to see if I would have any problems from repetition or heat.
I didn't even clean the gun from the last time I put 50 rounds through it, just to increase the chances of something happening.
I didn't have a single issue feeding, extracting, or shooting the gun.
Maybe I caught some good fortune, or maybe there's nothing wrong with the gun after all.
All the negative feedback I have seen really makes me wonder after it performing like that.
Thank you all for the feedback so far, really cool of you all.
Shoutout to @theraptur for the really extensive information you threw at me. You've really done your homework on the subject, thanks for that!
Good to see that it seems to be acting properly for you now.All the negative feedback I have seen really makes me wonder after it performing like that.
This underlined part stuck out to me though. I haven't seen much in terms of negative feedback for Girsan, aside from me picking mine to death for having some non-standard parts here or there that gave me fits. And even I will admit that's me nit-picking. As far as reliability and accuracy goes, it shoots a decently tight group and in 300 rounds it's only had one hiccup that I couldn't attribute directly to known problem magazines. And I haven't cleaned it since the day I got it home. It's been a legitimately good and cost effective pistol.
I just want to say, thank you for being so detailed with your explanation. I better understand the importance of the extractor and the given tolerances.
While I believe I may have really lucked out this weekend, I was able to fire a full box of FMJ through the pistol without any hiccups (original magazine and Mag-Car 10 round), I was very pleasantly surprised. This was done after a thorough cleaning and lube. I plan to repeat that this weekend without cleaning to see if it performs the same way with a little dust. I will also fire the gun using the method you described (chamber a round, drop the mag, fire, repeat) and pay close attention to how the casings are ejected.
I suppose I should also collect the casings to observe the contact areas and compare them to what you have pictured. It seems like the reason the casings may not eject is because the tolerance of the extractor being too tight to the casing, not giving enough room for the casing to extract freely (I am mostly basing the observation on the final picture in your comment) ?
Sorry for any dumb questions, I am learning, as stated before. That being said, I don't have the tools, or a lot of experience polishing or adjusting parts to such specifics as highlighted in the Steve in Allentown Extractor Fitting post you linked for me.
Sorry took so long to get back.
If the hook of the extractor is touching the case like in my last pic, it can cause problems, yes. It may not hold onto the case properly during ejection, it may push the cartridge over a bit and cause feed issues. Sometimes the hook is too tall and hits the case, more commonly the extractor itself is too long and would cause the hook to breech distance to be too large. Getting that extractor moved back could cure the hook hitting the case. It may need both, that is the hook height shortened AND the extractor pulled back. That's why those dimensions are important.
1. Hook to breech distance
2. Deflection (this is a big one)
3. Bevel on bottom of tensioning wall
4. Tension once the rest is set properly.
You can learn and do it, I had no idea what I was doing a few months ago. But I went after it. I'm still a newbie but I know I can get an extractor and firing pin stop dialed in! You can too. The experience will teach you and save you money. Get a new fps and extractor. Save the stock working pair as backup. Make some cheap measuring tools with feeler gages or a washer. It's shown in Steve's thread on tuning, he graciously allowed me to add on a bit from a layman's point of view.
If you want to learn, I also advise to start with a new fitted fps, new extractor, and a new 14lb recoil spring for a 5" pistol. You can make that pistol shoot softer and have less snap for faster followup shots as well as improve feeding/extracting/cycling. The experience will be amazing and satisfying.
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