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Girsan MCP35 PI - My Observations

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TNorris
I picked up a Girsan MCP35-PI from my FFL yesterday afternoon. It cost $540 from a no-auction sale on Gun Broker... after Illinois Sales Tax, Shipping and my FFL fee it totaled $662.40. I am happy.


My intention is, and has always been, to harvest the PI short slide and mate it with a spare BHP Alloy Frame. Last night I shipped it off to BHSS along with the FN Alloy Frame host pistol... there was no need test fire before shipping as she will be vastly improved, one way or another. I did take a quick look and weighed some parts to determine suitability for this this project. Some notes below are things I am looking at for a better hybrid carry gun.


TRIGGER -
The mag disconnect is in place and it is pretty rough, but not too heavy. The BHSS trigger with magazine eject spring will replace the stock trigger. The supplied magazine did not drop free.

  • Ten pull average: 7# 3oz
  • High: 8# 1.2oz
  • Low: 6# 9.7oz

SLIDE -
The slide is indeed as sexy as a BHP should be... the FM Detective Slide is not and this has always bothered me for no good reason other than a foolish sense of aesthetics. It just doesn't look right.

The complete PI slide is about 27 grams lighter than the FM Detective. Losing yet another ounce in carry weight is nice. Below I am comparing PI slide weights to the FM Detective Slide weight ( fitted with a BHSS barrel and night sights).


  • COMPLETE SLIDE: 387grams (vs 409grams/FM)
  • RECOIL SPRING & GUIDE ROD: 21grams (vs 18grams/FM)
  • BARREL: 81grams (vs 81 grams/BHSS-FM)
  • SLIDE: 284 grams (vs 311 grams/FM)

This slide features the MKlll type 2 (paddle style) Sear Lever. Mine is silver on the paddle... not sure why it is not blued or even if it is identical to the FN part. I hope Girsan has kept things like these standard to the BHP platform.


RECOIL SPRING & GUIDE ROD -
These parts are not identical to the FM Detective parts, much to my dismay. The Guide Rod is shorter by an unmeasured 1/8 inch or so. The recoil spring is a longer slightly stiffer flat wire single spring rather than the clever dual spring arrangement which FM employed.

With the FM Guide Rod and Spring assembly in place in the Girsan PI slide, I cannot lock the slide back for disassembly due the extra length of the FM Guide Rod.

The Guide Rod is of a design similar to the new BHSS design... open ended where it contacts the slide rather than the standard closed circle. If you have ever played with the FM Detective Slide you know how it is difficult to remove and install the Guide Rod/Spring Assembly. On the Girsan PI, it was even more difficult to remove or install this assembly. In addition... removing the Recoil Spring from the Guide Rod was so difficult that I could not do it. I moved on.


GIRSAN PI SLIDE FIT to FN BHP ALLOY FRAME -
The complete Girsan PI slide seems to fit on all three Alloy Frame FM pistols I have. I could not dry fire on the BHP Alloy Frame which is mated to the FM Detective Slide. It did dry fire just fine on the other two other BHP Alloy Frames. It slides back and forth cocking the hammer very nicely on all three frames... I really think it fits.


Overall it is a good looking pistol with usable sights similar to the Tisas or SA-35. Mine will get a full upgrade to SFS, BHSS trigger and more so I am not concerned with the standard slide release, trigger pull, etc. I think this will make for a sexy looking light-weight short-slide BHP carry pistol. Worse case... she will be all Girsan but upgraded with BHSS parts, the way I like my BHPs to be.

Last note:
She comes in a functional blue plastic case with one 15 round MecGar magazine, a wire bore brush, Instruction Manual and a cable lock. My only picture thus far is displayed below. I will add to this when she returns from BHSS.

I have been waiting for quite some time to find another "Detective" sized slide!



Cheers,

Tim

@ rellascout - thanks for the availability tip!


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ToddSig
Removed the mag safety from the PI, dropped the trigger pull weight by about a pound, and cleaned up some of the grittiness. With the mag safety in, the Lyman digital was reading around 7.11#, now reading consistently under 7 and mostly between 6.8 and 6.11. Still could use some work and polishing, but certainly an improvement.
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TNorris said:
I picked up a Girsan MCP35-PI from my FFL yesterday afternoon. It cost $540 from a no-auction sale on Gun Broker... after Illinois Sales Tax, Shipping and my FFL fee it totaled $662.40. I am happy.


My intention is, and has always been, to harvest the PI short slide and mate it with a spare BHP Alloy Frame. Last night I shipped it off to BHSS along with the FN Alloy Frame host pistol... there was no need test fire before shipping as she will be vastly improved, one way or another. I did take a quick look and weighed some parts to determine suitability for this this project. Some notes below are things I am looking at for a better hybrid carry gun.


TRIGGER -
The mag disconnect is in place and it is pretty rough, but not too heavy. The BHSS trigger with magazine eject spring will replace the stock trigger. The supplied magazine did not drop free.

  • Ten pull average: 7# 3oz
  • High: 8# 1.2oz
  • Low: 6# 9.7oz

SLIDE -
The slide is indeed as sexy as a BHP should be... the FM Detective Slide is not and this has always bothered me for no good reason other than a foolish sense of aesthetics. It just doesn't look right.

The complete PI slide is about 27 grams lighter than the FM Detective. Losing yet another ounce in carry weight is nice. Below I am comparing PI slide weights to the FM Detective Slide weight ( fitted with a BHSS barrel and night sights).


  • COMPLETE SLIDE: 387grams (vs 409grams/FM)
  • RECOIL SPRING & GUIDE ROD: 21grams (vs 18grams/FM)
  • BARREL: 81grams (vs 81 grams/BHSS-FM)
  • SLIDE: 284 grams (vs 311 grams/FM)

This slide features the MKlll type 2 (paddle style) Sear Lever. Mine is silver on the paddle... not sure why it is not blued or even if it is identical to the FN part. I hope Girsan has kept things like these standard to the BHP platform.


RECOIL SPRING & GUIDE ROD -
These parts are not identical to the FM Detective parts, much to my dismay. The Guide Rod is shorter by an unmeasured 1/8 inch or so. The recoil spring is a longer slightly stiffer flat wire single spring rather than the clever dual spring arrangement which FM employed.

With the FM Guide Rod and Spring assembly in place in the Girsan PI slide, I cannot lock the slide back for disassembly due the extra length of the FM Guide Rod.

The Guide Rod is of a design similar to the new BHSS design... open ended where it contacts the slide rather than the standard closed circle. If you have ever played with the FM Detective Slide you know how it is difficult to remove and install the Guide Rod/Spring Assembly. On the Girsan PI, it was even more difficult to remove or install this assembly. In addition... removing the Recoil Spring from the Guide Rod was so difficult that I could not do it. I moved on.


GIRSAN PI SLIDE FIT to FN BHP ALLOY FRAME -
The complete Girsan PI slide seems to fit on all three Alloy Frame FM pistols I have. I could not dry fire on the BHP Alloy Frame which is mated to the FM Detective Slide. It did dry fire just fine on the other two other BHP Alloy Frames. It slides back and forth cocking the hammer very nicely on all three frames... I really think it fits.


Overall it is a good looking pistol with usable sights similar to the Tisas or SA-35. Mine will get a full upgrade to SFS, BHSS trigger and more so I am not concerned with the standard slide release, trigger pull, etc. I think this will make for a sexy looking light-weight short-slide BHP carry pistol. Worse case... she will be all Girsan but upgraded with BHSS parts, the way I like my BHPs to be.

Last note:
She comes in a functional blue plastic case with one 15 round MecGar magazine, a wire bore brush, Instruction Manual and a cable lock. My only picture thus far is displayed below. I will add to this when she returns from BHSS.

I have been waiting for quite some time to find another "Detective" sized slide!



Cheers,

Tim

@ rellascout - thanks for the availability tip!


View attachment 670229
Click to expand...
You mentioned getting new trigger from BHSS, I got their advanced trigger system and it is crap. Not good investment.
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longarm
How sad.
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ToddSig
Vikingmarker said:
You mentioned getting new trigger from BHSS, I got their advanced trigger system and it is crap. Not good investment.
Click to expand...
Most of the feedback I have heard has been positive. Can you detail and expand on the issues you have with the BHSS trigger?
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ToddSig said:
Most of the feedback I have heard has been positive. Can you detail and expand on the issues you have with the BHSS trigger?
Click to expand...
It is hard to take out and put back together with the extra spring to eject magazine. If the mag disconnect is done right, the mag will drop even when empty. I took it out and replaced with original trigger. See no advantage only drawbacks.
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TNorris
Vikingmarker said:
It is hard to take out and put back together with the extra spring to eject magazine. If the mag disconnect is done right, the mag will drop even when empty. I took it out and replaced with original trigger. See no advantage only drawbacks.
Click to expand...
BHSS installed my first BHSS Advanced Trigger (My EDC Alloy Detective) and I installed the second one. It wasn't that hard. It's been a year, but I recall adding the magazine eject spring last. It is optional. I have a couple '80s High Powers that absolutely need the mag eject feature and a few others that eject just fine without it. I will probably put the spring in anyway. You should see how fast the mousetrap mags eject with the eject spring!

The New Girsan PI and its Alloy Frame host pistol will each have the triggers installed by BHSS, along with all the other improvements. I have four or five more triggers waiting to go in my other High Powers... when I get around to it. All will break around 4.5#s. I like consistency.

Before the BHSS Trigger came along, I routinely replaced all of my triggers with the C&S Wide Combat Trigger. I like the way the BHSS trigger feels and performs better than the C&S or OEM trigger, with or without the mag eject spring. I do not have the Magazine Disconnect Safety in any of my pistols.

*My two improved pistols may return home next week!

**Adding: I really preferred the C&S Wide Combat Trigger as compared to the OEM trigger. It was wider and i liked the way the serrations felt on my finger. It was basically a wider serrated version of the OEM trigger. The BHSS Trigger is equally wide and comes smooth or with serrations. It is more straight than the other two and sits back a bit farther in the trigger guard. You also have a choice of four different trigger spring to install. Each changes the pull wight by appx one quarter pound. I like the second from the lightest. If I wanted a target toy for the range, I might use the lightest spring. I find an advantage in having all 14 triggers being as close to identical as possible.

The parts of the OEM/C&S Trigger are not compatible with the BHSS Trigger, which is an entirely new design. I have never tried the Garthwaite Straight Trigger, which is parts compatible with the OEM/C&S triggers and, obviously, more straight than the original.


Cheers,

Tim
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rellascout
First 3 shots for the PI today. This was shot at 7 yards deliberate aimed fire. I wanted to see what the gun could do at 7 yards which is not a real test of any accuracy but it gave me a base line. I then shot about 75 more rounds of various 124gr ammo. S&B, my reloads and Browning. All fired with no feeding problems of any kind from 15 and 13 round mags. When I started working from the draw and speeding up the trigger really showed its lack of refinement. It is way too heavy and gritty to really control slap. That said nothing was thrown outside the 7 ring at 5, 7 and 10 yards.

I could say it was a positive experience. After I was done with my initial testing I shot my Yost BHP and 1911 and all I can say it they are not in the same universe. I also shot my SA 35 at it is better than the Girsan stock out of the box but not by much.

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B
Well, I won't say a bad trigger is ideal, but it's a Helluva lot less aggravating than FTE's and jamming.
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lonerider1013
Just got back from the very first visit to the range with my full size Girsan MC p-35.

Some impressions:
The p35 is:
Light-shooting: not much felt recoil.
It points more or less naturally - like the 1911 (maybe more so) it is easy to aim offhand (the rather bad shooting below - hand drawn target, 10 yards - is on me, not the gun :) )
It feeds excellent no ftf or fte in the three boxes of ammo I had with me.
fun as heck to shoot
It comes apart pretty easy, maybe easier than a 1911, and goes back together as easy.
No one told me 'flat dark earth' (i.e. tan) guns would show dirt so much (first one I had this color)
The little laser practice thing I have for '9mm' which fits my PSA Dagger and 9mm 1911 will not fit in the chamber, if you try the slide won't close (have to take the barrel out and look at that later).

Font Circle Rectangle Digital camera Metal

I should have got one of these a long time ago!

Only plans are to remove mag disconnect (possibly) and get a 2nd magazine, at least.
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R
I like my full sized Girsan Match pistol, but it's far from a "Match" shooter. It shoots "fair" with Federal 147 flat points, but with lighter bullets, it's not so hot. Maybe it will come around as it wears in, we'll see. I DO like the beavertail, I am prone to hammer bite without one. The F/O rod likes to walk out of the front sight, but I might have fixed that. We'll see about that. This is my fifth "P-35" type pistol, so I'm not a rookie, but I'm shooting my 1911s a lot better. It HAS been 20 years or more since I last had a P-35, so some of this is just me getting acclimated to the new pistol. I like it, no malfunctions of any sort so far. I bought a couple SA-marked magazines (by the Italians), no issues with them, either. Other than the front sight pipe issue, there's nothing else to complain about. No hammer bite, adequate sights, trigger pull isn't horrible, and will smooth up in time and useage. Overall, it's a nice enough pistol for a reprobate like me.
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TNorris
lonerider1013 said:
Only plans are to remove mag disconnect (possibly) and get a 2nd magazine, at least.
Click to expand...
ratwhacker said:
I bought a couple SA-marked magazines (by the Italians)
Click to expand...
Just for reference... the "SA marked Italian" mags and the magazine the Girsan comes with are made by MecGar, The Italians. You should consider MecGar mags to be OEM, because they are. MecGar also supplied mags for FN High Powers for decades.

With many other pistols, MecGar is also as good as you can get.


Cheers,

Tim
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lonerider1013
re the trigger of the girsan p35 - it felt horrible in the shop. But after a mere 3 boxes of ammo (and some dry fire) it is smooth and seems a lot better, despite the magazine disconnect.
I was pleasantly surprised my own self.
I advise anyone complaining of the trigger to put some rounds thru it it may improve greatly.
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lonerider1013
TNorris said:
Just for reference... the "SA marked Italian" mags and the magazine the Girsan comes with are made by MecGar, The Italians. You should consider MecGar mags to be OEM, because they are. MecGar also supplied mags for FN High Powers for decades.

With many other pistols, MecGar is also as good as you can get.


Cheers,

Tim
Click to expand...
Thank you. I checked today at the range (they have a shop there) they usually have a huge pile of mec gar mags of varying kinds, but they had none for the hi power. May have to order some. The mec gar are indeed good and it is what the gun comes with (15 shot mec gar). Though it would be cool to have a 13 shot mag just for the old school vibes. I usually only load 5 at the range anyway on semi-autos... but it would be neat to have the orig. capacity. Despite the ugly 'warning' I cannot say how impressed I am with this pistol, both in function and aesthetics. It is so much fun to shoot, very nice to look at, and very comfortable in hand. It might even rival the 1911 (gasp!) in ergonomics. :)
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TNorris
lonerider1013 said:
re the trigger of the girsan p35 - it felt horrible in the shop. But after a mere 3 boxes of ammo (and some dry fire) it is smooth and seems a lot better, despite the magazine disconnect.
I was pleasantly surprised my own self.
I advise anyone complaining of the trigger to put some rounds thru it it may improve greatly.
Click to expand...
Ain't it nice to buy a new pistol and have enough cash left over to run three boxes of ammo through it!

If you are retaining the magazine disconnect safety, you can polish the surface that contacts the magazine to reduce that gritty friction, which is what is slowly happening each time you pull the trigger with a magazine in place. I think some users have also polished the magazine face. Intentional polishing is faster thaqn letting the parts cure themselves through use. I think I would use a Dremel Tool with a polishing bob or maybe some really fine sandpaper on a pencil... maybe both in the proper order.

I prefer to remove the MDS entirely, usually by replacing the trigger with a new one that does not accomodate the MDS such as the C&S Wide Combat Trigger or my new favorite - the BHSS Advanced Trigger Assembly.


Cheers,

Tim
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lonerider1013
TNorris said:
Ain't it nice to buy a new pistol and have enough cash left over to run three boxes of ammo through it!

If you are retaining the magazine disconnect safety, you can polish the surface that contacts the magazine to reduce that gritty friction, which is what is slowly happening each time you pull the trigger with a magazine in place. I think some users have also polished the magazine face. Intentional polishing is faster thaqn letting the parts cure themselves through use. I think I would use a Dremel Tool with a polishing bob or maybe some really fine sandpaper on a pencil... maybe both in the proper order.

I prefer to remove the MDS entirely, usually by replacing the trigger with a new one that does not accomodate the MDS such as the C&S Wide Combat Trigger or my new favorite - the BHSS Advanced Trigger Assembly.


Cheers,

Tim
Click to expand...
Well to be fair, one of the benefits of the Girsan is its lower price point :) (and 9mm is one of the least overpriced of centerfire cartridges now)

I may wish to remove the disconnect, I tend not to like them, but for now am afraid to break the pistol by taking it apart too much. The trigger idea is appreciated, thank you.
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rellascout
ToddSig said:
Removed the mag safety from the PI, dropped the trigger pull weight by about a pound, and cleaned up some of the grittiness. With the mag safety in, the Lyman digital was reading around 7.11#, now reading consistently under 7 and mostly between 6.8 and 6.11. Still could use some work and polishing, but certainly an improvement.
Click to expand...
Did you have to remove the entire trigger like on. FN MKII-MKIII or could you just knock out the pin in the trigger line C or T series?
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ToddSig
rellascout said:
Did you have to remove the entire trigger like on. FN MKII-MKIII or could you just knock out the pin in the trigger line C or T series?
Click to expand...
Yes, had to remove the trigger pin and entire trigger assembly to remove the mag safety. I tried at first to take it out without removing the trigger, but no luck.
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Dragonscout
Great pics ToddSig. I was so stupid when I was young. Before the turn of the century, yeah back in the 80's I picked up a Belgian HP for $45o new and had it worked by a gunsmith Amado Delgado who owned Royal Gunshop in Hialeah, Florida. He also got me into competing with that HP. It ended up with a 4.5 lb trigger and was a dream to shoot. I ended up shooting for EAA for a few years and was naive enough to sell the HP to buy my first house. I've hated myself ever since!!! I'm taking a hard look since I fondled one of the MC-35 PIs the other day, although I'm not a fan of either the flat trigger or the factory pull. I gotta do more research since I'm also seeing what I can sell to pick up a StingRay in .45acp... Really appreciate you guys evals on these new versions although my wife isn't gonna be....
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V
If I got one (want badly) I'd have to send it out to Don Williams for a tune up! I can't stomach the factory triggers in HPs...that mag safety!

Lots of cool Turkish made firearms these days!

vfm
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lonerider1013
Oh, a tip - keep your work area clean. I disassembled mine to find two bb's and piece of spring nestled inside the end of the recoil spring. :oops:
I thought - that's odd, the gun doesn't have a nested recoil spring...
Then I realized based on the orientation of the spring (I keep it facing away from me toward the wall so it always goes on the same way when I put it back in) any bits of rubbish near the wall end of the bench, like bbs, etc., would have rolled down into the end of the spring and been stuck there by the oil. Doh!

Didn't hurt the way it shot tho, but still...

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