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Girsan MCP35 PI - My Observations

15K views 120 replies 21 participants last post by  TNorris 
#1 · (Edited)
I picked up a Girsan MCP35-PI from my FFL yesterday afternoon. It cost $540 from a no-auction sale on Gun Broker... after Illinois Sales Tax, Shipping and my FFL fee it totaled $662.40. I am happy.


My intention is, and has always been, to harvest the PI short slide and mate it with a spare BHP Alloy Frame. Last night I shipped it off to BHSS along with the FN Alloy Frame host pistol... there was no need test fire before shipping as she will be vastly improved, one way or another. I did take a quick look and weighed some parts to determine suitability for this this project. Some notes below are things I am looking at for a better hybrid carry gun.


TRIGGER -
The mag disconnect is in place and it is pretty rough, but not too heavy. The BHSS trigger with magazine eject spring will replace the stock trigger. The supplied magazine did not drop free.

  • Ten pull average: 7# 3oz
  • High: 8# 1.2oz
  • Low: 6# 9.7oz

SLIDE -
The slide is indeed as sexy as a BHP should be... the FM Detective Slide is not and this has always bothered me for no good reason other than a foolish sense of aesthetics. It just doesn't look right.

The complete PI slide is about 27 grams lighter than the FM Detective. Losing yet another ounce in carry weight is nice. Below I am comparing PI slide weights to the FM Detective Slide weight ( fitted with a BHSS barrel and night sights).


  • COMPLETE SLIDE: 387grams (vs 409grams/FM)
  • RECOIL SPRING & GUIDE ROD: 21grams (vs 18grams/FM)
  • BARREL: 81grams (vs 81 grams/BHSS-FM)
  • SLIDE: 284 grams (vs 311 grams/FM)

This slide features the MKlll type 2 (paddle style) Sear Lever. Mine is silver on the paddle... not sure why it is not blued or even if it is identical to the FN part. I hope Girsan has kept things like these standard to the BHP platform.


RECOIL SPRING & GUIDE ROD -
These parts are not identical to the FM Detective parts, much to my dismay. The Guide Rod is shorter by an unmeasured 1/8 inch or so. The recoil spring is a longer slightly stiffer flat wire single spring rather than the clever dual spring arrangement which FM employed.

With the FM Guide Rod and Spring assembly in place in the Girsan PI slide, I cannot lock the slide back for disassembly due the extra length of the FM Guide Rod.

The Guide Rod is of a design similar to the new BHSS design... open ended where it contacts the slide rather than the standard closed circle. If you have ever played with the FM Detective Slide you know how it is difficult to remove and install the Guide Rod/Spring Assembly. On the Girsan PI, it was even more difficult to remove or install this assembly. In addition... removing the Recoil Spring from the Guide Rod was so difficult that I could not do it. I moved on.


GIRSAN PI SLIDE FIT to FN BHP ALLOY FRAME -
The complete Girsan PI slide seems to fit on all three Alloy Frame FM pistols I have. I could not dry fire on the BHP Alloy Frame which is mated to the FM Detective Slide. It did dry fire just fine on the other two other BHP Alloy Frames. It slides back and forth cocking the hammer very nicely on all three frames... I really think it fits.


Overall it is a good looking pistol with usable sights similar to the Tisas or SA-35. Mine will get a full upgrade to SFS, BHSS trigger and more so I am not concerned with the standard slide release, trigger pull, etc. I think this will make for a sexy looking light-weight short-slide BHP carry pistol. Worse case... she will be all Girsan but upgraded with BHSS parts, the way I like my BHPs to be.

Last note:
She comes in a functional blue plastic case with one 15 round MecGar magazine, a wire bore brush, Instruction Manual and a cable lock. My only picture thus far is displayed below. I will add to this when she returns from BHSS.

I have been waiting for quite some time to find another "Detective" sized slide!



Cheers,

Tim

@ rellascout - thanks for the availability tip!


Blue Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory
 
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#90 ·
Just picked up my Girsan PI today. Got it from Kentucky Gun Co. for $472.99 including shipping. There was some type of “shipping insurance” for $5.91. I did not get hit up for sales tax or any other fees. Seemed like a great deal.

Inserted one of my NOS Browning “mouse trap” 15 round mags. These mags have some type of anti friction coating that helps to smooth out the trigger pull. I am using these mags in my BHP Practical, my full size Girsan MC35 and now this PI model. I love the way they drop free with that “mouse trap” system.

I do have a question about removing the recoil spring assembly during take down. So far I have not been able to twist it or lift it far enough from the barrel to remove it. I do not want to break or bend anything so I will have to play with it some more.

Really like the feel and looks of this gun and am looking forward to hitting the range with it.
 
#92 ·
I do have a question about removing the recoil spring assembly during take down. So far I have not been able to twist it or lift it far enough from the barrel to remove it. I do not want to break or bend anything so I will have to play with it some more.

Really like the feel and looks of this gun and am looking forward to hitting the range with it.
I have not yet found an easy method for removal of the recoil spring. I have taken it out and replaced several times, a couple times no issues, a few other times, it has been difficult to manipulate out. I try keeping it low, moving to the side of the barrel lug, pushing the barrel lug (if there is some play) in the opposite direction. Replacing, just moving it around, sort of hit or miss, trying to align the end of the rod with barrel opening. Again, trying to keep the rod low. I have also tried with the cylinder and slide recoil spring tool. It is easier on the hands, but seems to get in the way of the barrel lug, so not an ideal solution either.
 
#93 ·
There is nothing in the owners manual about any special field strip procedures for the PI model recoil spring system. I finally got mine out by using a brass punch in the assembly hole to push it forward and then work it out. I had to use the same tool to reassemble it. Sort of a PITA but doable.

Trooper Joe
 
#99 ·
Anyone else try to it their Girsan PI into high quality BHP leather. I can report that it does not fit into a Milt Spark VMII. It does fit into a Garrett leather lined Kydex. This tells me that the slide is slightly thicker than the FN/Browning. The Garrett is a much more forgiving fit than the Milt Sparks. I would be interested if anyone else has tried to fit it into high quality leather. This will be another consideration as people move toward customizing them for carry. The FMs required different leather. It appears that the Girsan PI might be the same.
 
#100 ·
Mine fits nicely into the Privateer Leather holster I have been using for my FM Detective. I stretched the holster a bit by wrapping a cheap plastic bag around the pistol, per Wes at Privateer, and left it in the holster for a short while, but longer than Wes suggested. Retention with the Girsan PI and my FN BHPs seem quite adequate. I had Wes make the holster shorter and a bit roomier to accommodate the FM Detective.

My Girsan PI and FNs also fit well in a kydex BHP holster which will not accommodate the FM Detective. The FM slide is too thick for the pistol to be fully inserted into the kydex holster. My brief check led me to believe the Girsan was more similar in slide width to the FNs.

I will be sure to fully check it out when my pistol returns.


Cheers,

Tim
 
#103 ·
longarm, just an FYI: if you want others to see your "smilies" then you need to add one space between the end of your sentence and the "smiley".

I will bill you. ;)
 
#105 · (Edited)
This thread cost me some money. I had been waiting to pick up a PI model after waiting impatiently for weeks after the initial announcement was made last year. I had put the want on the back burner after hearing from one of Girsan’s industry guys that they were working on an aluminum-framed version of their mp35, but who knows when and if that might actually happen. So this thread inspired a quick Gunbroker and Google-box search. I found a PI model from Locked and Loaded LTD for $442 plus shipping so why not given the current favorable exchange rates. The Turkish Lira isn’t likely to go down any more than it is right now compared to the US dollar.

Speaking on the FN alloy frames to mate the PI upper to, I have 4 examples to test. One of the examples being from ‘75 and having the traditional oval cam versus the more common round cam found in most of the alloy hi-powers. I specifically sought the ‘75 out for this reason a few years ago because I believed that it was more robust and better suited for a conversion for my FM Detective slide but after having spoken to Mark and company at BHSS I was actually advised the opposite by them. Can anyone offer any insight as to this? Obviously they know a thing or two about the hi-power as a platform and I’m just an enthusiastic supporter but I want to make sure and avoid frame damage to my original alloy guns.

I want the optimum set up for durability so if that means using the round cam and the original barrel cut down and mated to the Girsan Slide, a BHSS detective barrel with the Girsan slide or the complete factory Girsan upper I just don’t know. Can anyone offer an enlightened opinion on which is the preferred cam from the alloy-framed guns?

edit As for the durability of the FM barrel lugs I can confirm that I have seen at least one FM Detective Slide trashed and the barrel lugs rounded off because of poor timing and possibly inferior metallurgy. What little bit of gunsmith knowledge I have I know that timing on 1911s and other barrel-lugged guns like the BHP is very important so proper fitment of all the camming surfaces-both in the slide and frame-and recoil/hammer spring weights is essential to get correct to avoid ruining a gun. I spent over $900 purchasing an FM Detective upper from a well-reputed BHP fellow only to find the barrel and slide lugs wallowed out. Luckily he let me return it for a refund.
 
#106 ·
Speaking on the FN alloy frames to mate the PI upper to, I have 4 examples to test. One of the examples being from ‘75 and having the traditional oval cam versus the more common round cam found in most of the alloy hi-powers. I specifically sought the ‘75 out for this reason a few years ago because I believed that it was more robust and better suited for a conversion for my FM Detective slide but after having spoken to Mark and company at BHSS I was actually advised the opposite by them. Can anyone offer any insight as to this? Obviously they know a thing or two about the hi-power as a platform and I’m just an enthusiastic supporter but I want to make sure and avoid frame damage to my original alloy guns.
Back in 2009 on this forum, master gunsmith Ted Yost made the following statement on the reason FN switched from the oval cam (1975) to the splined came (post 1975) on alloy High Powers.

It's the barrel cam. Splined on both ends, removable for refinishing. A pressed in cam like the steel framed guns have would loosen up with use and walk out.
Going by the Ted Yost post, the pressed in, oval cam is less desirable than the post 1975 splined cam,

Keep in mind the shape of the barrel lug to the splined cam is slightly different, and the fit is better on the 75 oval cam (as designed for the steel frame). There have been forum posts stating no difference in function, performance or longevity when using a splined frame with the standard barrel lug designed for the oval cam.

Image....75 barrel, same barrel lug design as a steel frame High Power, post 1975, showing a 1980 barrel lug out of a splined frame, and a FM Detective barrel, designed for a steel frame.

 
#107 ·
Thank you for the reply Todd. I was aware that the barrel lug shapes were slightly different. I guess I’d forgotten about the splined vs non-splined cam differences. It seemed to me that if the fit to the lugs to the cam was “better” like it was on the ‘75 oval cam design then logic dictated that this would be the preferred coupling but Mr. Yost’s word is good enough for me I suppose.
 
#110 · (Edited)
Quick update on the alloy PI build

1) Using the FM Detective guide rod and dual springs with the PI slide definitely reduces the felt recoil. The combo now "feels" very similar to my EDC with the normal FM Detective guide rod and dual springs setup. I will likely use this setup in the final result.

2) The FTF issue has cropped up again. Happens with both the Girsan barrel and the BHSS Detective barrel. Happens with both the standard Girsan recoil spring/guide rod and the FM Detective style setup. I am testing with PMC Bronze 124gr FMJ.

The interesting wrinkle is that I swapped to Fiocchi 9mm 115gr FMJ and it seems to be better. The bullet nose profile of the Fiocchi is ever so slightly more tapered than the PMC Bronze round. Both of the barrels have the straight feedramp and I am using a brand new Mecgar 15 round mag.

I am building this PI as an EDC so I gotta figure this out. If it won't reliably cycle 124 gr FMJ, then "Houston, we have a problem" (I live in Houston so a little NASA joke) which means it will likely be finicky with JHP.

Will keep everyone posted.

Scott
 
#111 ·
I’m not sure what your preferred carry ammo is but the bullet shape and design of the Hornady defensive ammo (critical duty and critical defense) lends itself to reliable cycling and might be worth testing out on your finicky gun if funds allow it. Though I’m of the opinion that any modern gun ought to eat just about anything reliably.
 
#117 ·
OK… this is the beginning of my update to the thread. My pair of pistols will be returning soon. I received a photo a little bit ago and since I’ve approved, they will be test fired and mailed back to me by the end of next week. I can hardly wait!

see the first post for details of the project.

Cheers,

Tim


Top: Girsan frame with FN slide - the spare parts.

Bottom: FN Alloy frame with Girsan PI slide and all the BHSS things I want! The sights still need to be pushed in. After a bunch of target time this one will become my new BHP-PI EDC.

 
#118 ·
Tim, were there any fitting issues reported in mating the Girsan PI slide to the alloy frame? Did they use the Girsan guide rod and flat spring or did they switch it out for their Detective guide rod and dual springs or do other alterations? How about the barrel, did they keep the original or are did they install a BHSS barrel? Just interested in knowing how much work was needed to make it function properly.
 
#120 ·
Good questions, Todd!

For answers... tune in next week after I see it, go over the paperwork and give them a call. The BHSS FM Detective barrel has been installed. I am very much interested in that guide rod/recoil spring.

I'll be sure to ask if there were any frame/slide mating difficulties.


Cheers,

Tim
Thanks Tim, looking forward to your comments. Dont you just hate the wait for things to ship and arrive, all that pent up anticipation.
 
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