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Discussion Starter #1
Hey, fellow gunners.

I have a problem. I'm downright stuck as to what my upcoming concealed carry piece is going to be. I have settled on either the Glock 29 or 30. I need some input please, without recommending another manufacturer, another model, or flaming each other with Colt vs. Glock barbs. I am not trolling. I just need some friendly input.

Here is where I am stuck:

I love the 10mm and the .45. The 10mm can launch a 135 gr. bullet at over 1450 fps, creating beaucoup energy. The problem is the 29 frame has only two finger grooves, with the baby finger hanging out there in no man's land. I feel this would create a problem with maintaining a good solid hold on the gun while launching full-power ammo. I have the model 20 (and love it) but it is way too big to carry concealed. Ammo is getting very expensive for the 10mm; as good as it is, I'm afraid this round is going to be abolished from the public domain pretty soon.

I dig the .45, too (have a Colt 1911A1)
. What I like about the 30 is the extension on the magazine that allows the baby finger to add control.

So it's an expensive 135 grainer going 1450 with poor handgrip control, or an affordable 185 grainer going about 1050 with great handgrip control.

With this being the "1911" forum, why do I feel the recommendation is going to be the 30?

Talk to me.

Thanks,
Rob
 

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Go with the 30. The 10mm is on the way out, excpet for specialized uses like handgun hunting with semi-autos. Since a Glock makes a poor hunting weapon I say go with the proven .45 ACP.

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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
 

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To further cloud the issue, you can get a Pierce extention for the G29/30 mag to make it more grip friendly on the G29 (this also makes the G30 grip more comfortable and aesthetically pleasing). In the shorter barrel length, I prefer the 30 simply because there is less muzzle flip which allows me to double tap easier. Both are a little too thick for me to carry comfortably. Have you considered a G27? Of your two choices, I'd go with the G30.

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I think you can find aftermarket magazine floorplates which can provide a "pinky rest" for the M29...try Pearce.

That said, I would go with the G30. The world is awash with decent .45ACP ammo. As you note, 10mm is a bit of a specialty item.

While the kinetic energy figures of the 10mm are quite high, remember that kinetic energy is not a reliable indicator of stopping potential. Kinetic energy is too influenced by velocity to mean much. Plain ol' momentum is a better indicator. The 10mm is no slouch in this area either, but it offers no advanatage that would lure me away from the .45ACP.

Whichever you choose, remember that Richard Heinie offers his superb SlantPro sights for it...either plain or with "straight-eight" tritium inserts.

Rosco
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Originally posted by Rosco Benson:
While the kinetic energy figures of the 10mm are quite high, remember that kinetic energy is not a reliable indicator of stopping potential. Kinetic energy is too influenced by velocity to mean much
.
I agree with that to a point. I think it has to be a good compromise of bore diameter, velocity, and bullet design.

A .15 caliber bullet launched at 4,500 fps would generate massive energy on paper, but I wouldn't want to rely on it to stop an agressor. Conversely, I wouldn't want to rely on a 2 inch dia. bullet going 100 fps.

Evan Marshall used to keep the stats on one-shot stops. For years--and I believe it has never been topped--the 125 gr. .357 Mag at about 1,400 fps was king. It had the top percentage of one-shot stops.

I like the big-mouth design of the .45 hollowpoint. It looks like a dog-goned parachute that comes out the back of a dragster. I believe this large diameter hollowpoint slows the bullet greatly on impact to allow all the energy to be transfered into the target.

I think way too much has been made of Peter Pi and his Cor-Bon ammo. He is way off the deep end with velocity. To that extent he believes velocity can overcome bullet diameter.

Therein lies the rub. I believe the "ideal" bullet diameter is .40 (10mm) to .45, travelling at a decent velocity.

And to further complicate matters, I like the ballistics of the .357 SIG (.357 Mag ballistics), but the cartridge looks like it is becoming another 10mm in regard to being accepted by the public.

When all this shakes out, it looks as if the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 will remain, with the .357 SIG and 10mm being phased out.

Rob
 

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There's no exacting formula to predict just how good a round will be regarding stopping effectiveness. Even Marshall himself once admitted he cannot explain why some small, high-speed rounds like the Cor-Bon 115gr. 9mm share the top of the ladder right alongside fat, slow-moving rounds like Federal 230gr. 45ACP. The light, fast .45s aren't that great, but neither are the heavy, slow 9mms! And of course there is the supposedly wimpy .223 that has proven just as effective as a .308 under 100 yards (although things certainly change further downrange). Everybody has a theory; nobody has proof.

Me, I'll just stick with the mere "evidence" that has been gathered from 90 years of combat use and keep my .45s.


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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 10-12-2001).]
 

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Try either at a range and see how you like it. Which ever you shoot the best is what you should get. Does the 185gr out of the G30 get up to 1000fps? I didn't think it made it there. There is always the magazine extention for the pinky on the 29. It isn't like ammo makers don't make 10mm at all, although it isn't plentiful, and some don't make it at all. As far as 10mm going away, that is not likely the case. Especially for the reloader. There are bullets and casings that are more obscure than the 10mm that are available. Starline brass in:

7.63 Mauser
7.62x25(Tokarev)
44 Russian
45 Super
45 Schofield
9mm Largo
38 Short Colt
44 Colt
10mm Magnum
360 DW
50 Alaskan
38 Casull
38 S&W

This has been an issue in contention for years. Beginning with the introduction of the 40 short and weak, people have predicted the 10mm's extinction. Maybe refering to factory loads, but it still hasn't come to pass.
 

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Sounds like you've answered your own question. Unless you're into reloading which enables you to get the full potential out of the 10mm, I would stick with the ammo flexibility of the 45acp.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Originally posted by dsk:
Me, I'll just stick with the mere "evidence" that has been gathered from 90 years of combat use and keep my .45s.

Amen to that, my friend.

As I wrote before, I have a full-size Glock 10mm and a full-size Colt .45. I like both cartridges, but trying to settle on which one to carry in a mini is turning out to be more difficult than I expected. They both have a boatload of positives and few negatives.

Take care, sir.
Rob
 

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Get the 30..Shoots easy and accurate..The 9 round mag makes it an even better concealed gun..A great pointer..just point and shoot..It hits the mark every time, and unlike other types of 45s this one won't jam,or missfire..Over 1000 rounds thru mine and not a hi-cup..
 

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GUNNUTS HERE:Just my 2 cents,But! GET the 30 and some 185 gr.+P'S in the REM.Goldensabers and hang on!I use them in my Wilson KZ-45 shoots right on at 20 yards,but they do BOOM! and kick a little more,second shot may take a little longer.
 

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You won't regret the choice.. I've grown very fond of mine..


Rick


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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Thomas Jefferson
 

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I have had my G30 for a few years now,I have the pearce floorplates on the mags.It is a great little gun,accurate,reliable, and concealable.
 

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I have a glock 30 comming in either
to day or tomorrow sounds like I made
the right choice. I was chosing between
the 30 or the 36 but decided 6 rnds
wasnt enough. I paid 650.00 for glock
30/night sights is that high, low or
about average?
 

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My personal preference: the 30. I have shot the 26 (9mm) and the 27 (.40). I was able to control the 26 for better groups so I went with the 26. The 29 is the same basic size as the 26/27, so my results with the 29 would be about the same as with the 27. I have shot the 30 and it also an accurate weapon. Nothing against .40 or 10mm, but I have decided having no more than two large pistol calibers (9mm & .45) makes life simplier for me. Therefore, if I already have a 1911 in .45, I would opt for the 30. Good CCW in combination with a Sidearmor IWB.
 

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Another issue is overpenetration. Better to make the bigger hole at a lower speed because more of the "on paper" energy actually gets transferred to the target as oppossed to putting it into someone or something behind what you are shooting at. Hollow points are fine, but don't rely on them as they may not expand if they pick up cloth on the way through clothing.
 
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