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Discussion Starter #1
I need a little help from you seasoned gunsmiths out there. I have finally acquired the tooling to golfball a few of my 1911's and was wondering if there was a jig available for this. I thought about writing a CNC program for this operation and trying that, but I bit off a little more than I could chew. Do you guys build your own? Would a couple pics be imposing too much? Thanks in advance snakeater.........
 

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Snake,
golfballing is a Chuck Rogers (Pistolwrench) treatment. I have seen pics of how he does it, his jigs are built in house. I'm sure he is alittle busy finishing things for SHOT, try him after SHOT he might help you out. There might be a few pics here on the site.

Mark
 

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Isn't that sort of like asking the artist to teach you to paint so that you don't have to pay his commission? Seems a little tacky to me.
 

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Chuck is usually pretty open with how he does things. I wouldn't think he would have a problem with a do it yourselfer trying this on his own personal guns. I did my own and it was just for the challenge of the project, not to save a buck.

If on the other hand you were wanting to start charging others for this, then yeah that would be tacky.
 

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Isn't that sort of like asking the artist to teach you to paint so that you don't have to pay his commission? Seems a little tacky to me.
I see what you mean, but the pros on here are pretty open and willing to help guys get up and running or help out with problems encountered.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
..

I have consulted pistolwrench many times on this board and on the phone with projects that I am working on, I am merely asking once again for advice from people who know more than I do. Second, he isn't the only person who offers this treatment. Tacky or not the only dumb question in my book is the one not asked. I am not asking for a trade secret that is patented, merely a point in the right direction from the people who are already doing it. As for the people who post under topics with no helpfull advice to give or experience in such areas I say thanks for nothing, you have done nothing but waste space. I have since talked with someone who is better with CNC than I am and written a program for this treatment, that I will be trying tonight. If anyone wants it I will send them a CAD file of it free of charge.......like all the other good 'smiths on here I help those that ask. Snakeater
 

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I've found Chuck nothing but open to discussion and honest to a fault!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I agree wholeheartedly. I hope to run him down and talk to him at SHOT show this year.
 

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A jig like the one sold by Kustom Ballistics may very well be what you are looking for. Although it's not cheap, it looks like it is exactly the kind of jig that will allow you to accurately golfball a frontstrap on a 1911.

http://www.kustom-ballistics.com/pistol_checkering.php

--Wintermute
 

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I just hope Chuck patended his invention. I'd hate to think there are other thieves out there that would take advantage of his original design! I'll be watching...
 

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I just hope Chuck patended his invention. I'd hate to think there are other thieves out there that would take advantage of his original design! I'll be watching...
Remember that even if he hasn't patented it, if he was the first person to do it (and more importantly, he can prove it) he can apply for a patent now and then serve anyone else doing the same treatment with a cease and desist order. He just won't be able to take them to court for damages unless they are still doing the treatment after his patent has been filed and the filing has been publicly disclosed. If he really was the first person to do that treatment and can prove it, it would probably be worth his while to patent the treatment. Additionally, if he feels like enforcing it on a constant basis, he can copyright the term golfballing (in regards to a treatment for a firearm). The primary thing to remember with a copyright is that the holder of the copyright is required to enforce protection of their own copyright via legal action on a constant basis, or the copyright can be lost due to genericide.

--Wintermute
 

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so if any body makes a 1911 and there not John Browning are they tacky thieves?
Well Mr Browning (through Colt of course) had a patten on the gun. And thats good for 20 years. After that its fair game to market and sell even 100% direct copy's.

Its more of a ethical thing. Why steal something when you can get it for free?
99% of the pistol smith out there would probably say yes if you call them and ask them if you can "copy" their idea for your own use. Hell Id be willing to bet they would freely give you advise if not walk you though the whole operation.
It would be a different story if you were looking to copy their idea to sell to others.
 

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Browining's patents ran out long ago. My friend Chuck Rogers would probably teach you person to person how to do his design, but I'd guarantee you, if you tried to market under your own design, you would have hell to pay. Then I'll be coming next!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
well I am not a "for profit" gunsmith. I only work on my own guns and those of friends. My intention is not to get out of paying someone to do this process, merely to learn it for my personal use.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
..

wintermute----thanks for the link. that thing is a little pricey huh! I basically accomplished the same thing by using a machinist vise inside my mill vise using angle guages to hold the fixture true. I believe I may try to make a jig like that one tomorrow if I have the time, that looks like the perfect setup for doing just about any of the texture finishes on front straps. snakeater
 

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A jig like the one sold by Kustom Ballistics may very well be what you are looking for. Although it's not cheap, it looks like it is exactly the kind of jig that will allow you to accurately golfball a frontstrap on a 1911.

http://www.kustom-ballistics.com/pistol_checkering.php

--Wintermute
I'm a little late to this thread but this is the jig I was going to suggest. The first time I saw this jig I was talking with Neal in KC at the NRA show; this was long before the golf ball scallop treatment came on the scene.
There's been several different types of scallop treatments to front straps over the years, as for who was first to offer them, my guess would be either Neal or Krebbs.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 

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Chuck Rogers won't be hard to find at the SHOT show.
 
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