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So when are we going to stop these out of control, illegal, criminal agencies? It is every Americans born right to own a machine gun. Who made the ATF ghod?
 

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As usual they are picking on people who are not a threat to society, and doing nothing about the scumbags with criminal records who run around with guns stuffed in their baggy pants.
 

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Actions taken, or threatened, against any good law-abiding owners of a specific type(s) of firearms are, or should be, a concern of all firearms owners.

0bama, Bloomberg, etc., and their pals will make every effort to divide and conquer firearms owners.

As Wayne LaPierre says, we must stand and fight (as a united front).
 

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I think the ex-post facto prohibition in the constitution would prevent the BATFE from making criminals of the owners, if they have the proper stamp and paper work that was approved by the BATFE.

There are many legal hurdles here that would make it impossible to convict someone owning one that dotted all the 'i's and crossed all the 't's.

Still, it could put a cloud on continued ownership of those weapons.
 

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So we let the bad guys have Machine Guns. While we have law abiding citizens being turned into a criminals for having H&K sears, and being able to install it and make your Machine Gun, a Automatic.
Which was approved to have in the first place. Now change the rules! Well i hope all the ATF paperwork is messed up and won't be able to trace them!! After look at how well the ATF can lose guns!! :rolleyes:
Scott
 

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So when are we going to stop these out of control, illegal, criminal agencies? It is every Americans born right to own a machine gun. Who made the ATF ghod?
Never. Republicans (the party that is slightly better on the 2nd amendment) had the presidency, the senate, and the House and did nothing but bloat the fed even more.

The Dims certainly won't do anything to our advantage.

It seems lately that the SC has been blackmailed or bought out by the Obama Administration so there is no joy there.
 

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I think the ex-post facto prohibition in the constitution would prevent the BATFE from making criminals of the owners, if they have the proper stamp and paper work that was approved by the BATFE.

There are many legal hurdles here that would make it impossible to convict someone owning one that dotted all the 'i's and crossed all the 't's.

Still, it could put a cloud on continued ownership of those weapons.
Perhaps - but that expost facto prohibition probably wouldn't stop them from confiscating them.
 

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I think the ex-post facto prohibition in the constitution would prevent the BATFE from making criminals of the owners, if they have the proper stamp and paper work that was approved by the BATFE.

There are many legal hurdles here that would make it impossible to convict someone owning one that dotted all the 'i's and crossed all the 't's.

Still, it could put a cloud on continued ownership of those weapons.
Perhaps - but that expost facto prohibition probably wouldn't stop them from confiscating them.
Requiring someone to surrender something that WAS perfectly legal for the past 29 years all because some bureaucrat arbitrarilly changed their mind, ammounts to a 5th amendment violation. (depriving of property without due process.)
 

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Requiring someone to surrender something that WAS perfectly legal for the past 29 years all because some bureaucrat arbitrarilly changed their mind, ammounts to a 5th amendment violation. (depriving of property without due process.)
Sadly, no. The 5th just guarantees due process; not fair process or, more importantly, fair process-ors ... another reason I REALLY hope we see a 3rd Party soon, as it seems the only way to avoid armed conflict.
 

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So when are we going to stop these out of control, illegal, criminal agencies? It is every Americans born right to own a machine gun. Who made the ATF ghod?
For all the "come and take it" and bravado about F the BATFE, very few are going to fire a shot if it came to that. The same group toes the line and plays by the rules, offers up no real resistance. Step one would be civil disobedience. I recently asked the question about an NFA item Form 20, some one was having a meltdown about approval times from BATFE. I asked when was the last time you saw, EVER saw, some ATF guys at a range doing some sort of "check"?

To which I got lit up for even suggesting there be some resistance to the BS.
 

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It figures. Right when I am on the verge of having enough "disposable income" to buy an M2 carbine.
 

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Sadly, no. The 5th just guarantees due process; not fair process or, more importantly, fair process-ors ... another reason I REALLY hope we see a 3rd Party soon, as it seems the only way to avoid armed conflict.
"Due process" does not include making something illegal, (ex-post facto even!), by fiat of a unelected bureaucrat.
 

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"Due process" does not include making something illegal, (ex-post facto even!), by fiat of a unelected bureaucrat.
I *think* this is simply enforcing an existing law (products not registered by a cutoff date). I agree it would be (kinda) like confiscating a classic car for lack of seat belts, but if there is no statute of limitation, it will likely be unsuccessfully challenged.

A better use of legal energy would be to repeal all non-2A-friendly regulation than challenge this one point.
 

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It figures. Right when I am on the verge of having enough "disposable income" to buy an M2 carbine.
I doubt there was a rush to make a lot of M2 carbines on the last day.

This is going to involve a bunch of MAC-types (made from flats), DIAS, and lightning links.

Stuff that you can "manufacture" with little effort. That being said, the ATF is wasting time and money on a non-issue. Yay, government! The ban does not apply to "any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes effect."

The guns were lawfully possessed before that date even if the forms were not filed yet. Manufacturers have, what, two days (?) to file the forms? There is nothing in this passage about the forms so the legal basis of the ATF action is what, exactly?
 

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Requiring someone to surrender something that WAS perfectly legal for the past 29 years all because some bureaucrat arbitrarilly changed their mind, ammounts to a 5th amendment violation. (depriving of property without due process.)
That is exactly what it is... an arbitrary decision not based on the LAW...

This is about as unconstitutional as it comes...

The unconstitutional reaches for de facto gun banning out of the Administration need to come to a dead halt... and reversed...

Regardless of whether you own one or not...

NO ground should be given...
 

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I wonder what percent of legal gun owners also have a stamp for an automatic weapon. I would guess, the suppressor stamp has more of a following as while the stamp price is the same the unit price point is "extremely" lower. So the idea here is the government like the wolf is cutting out the smallest member of the herd - to gnaw on.

Anyone have any national numbers? I found some sketchy stuff on VA but that was it. http://hamptonroads.com/2012/10/virginia-tops-us-machine-gun-owners
 

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I wonder what percent of legal gun owners also have a stamp for an automatic weapon. I would guess, the suppressor stamp has more of a following as while the stamp price is the same the unit price point is "extremely" lower. So the idea here is the government like the wolf is cutting out the smallest member of the herd - to gnaw on.

Anyone have any national numbers? I found some sketchy stuff on VA but that was it. http://hamptonroads.com/2012/10/virginia-tops-us-machine-gun-owners
I have 4 NFA guns and getting ready to buy a suppressor









 
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