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Discussion Starter #1
Thanks for all of the help in this forum a couple of months back regarding Mossberg 500 Persuader vs Remington's 870 model. I opted for the Remington for two reasons, it's safety although not as strategicly placed as the Mossbergs, the Mossberg's looked like a rickety add on afterthought almost, rather have a safety to count on even if it's not in the great place, and the fact that for whatever reason, without wearing glasses the Remington's front side bead can be seen for me whereas the Mossberg bead I just couldn't see at all (without glasses).

BUT I can see the attraction of the Mossberg for home defense, in my opinion this is THE design for a defensive shotgun because one does not have to switch hands to rack the chamber, hunting yea who cares, typically a few feet into the woods from your automobile you chamber a round then rely on the safety before the hunt, in home defense seconds or split seconds can make all the difference and switching hands to rack the slide then reposition the firearm into a combat mode is awkward and time consuming. I amost bought the Maverick because it has everything the 500 has but does not have that rickety safety, but relying on a trimmed down Mossberg was in itself unthinkable!, but have read nothing but good reports on the Maverick.

I think the Mossberg is a better designed home defense shotgun then the Remington, however I am now an 870 owner and I'm never was going to rely on giving away my position by the old adage I've heard so many times, that racking the slide will automatically deter all bad guys.

My two cents worth on the age old Mossberg vs Remington debate.
 

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I just got an 870HD last week, I love it.

Put on a speedfeed stock, and a surefire 918, with a 6 round side saddle.

Awesome handling gun, and for the money... it's hard to beat. I think I paid 270, plus 40 back from remington and a 10 dollar off coupon at sportsman's warehouse.

 

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Discussion Starter #3
mine is different

Yours has the pistol grip and fancy shoulder stock, mine doesn't, looks just like the Mossberg 590 without that heat thingy on top. By far the ugliest firearm I've ever owned, everything is a charcoal like flat parkerized like finish. Haven't fired it yet, I do like the looseness of the Mossbergs although many complain about it, seems to me looseness can be your friend if junk were to get inside. Anyway so my Remington is a bare bones type, cost me $350. at a gun store, Academy Sporting Goods, a chain outfit, sells the same Remington for Remington's web site's msrp, $389. as I recall. I do not plan on adding anything to it, want something smooth and clean to grab if I need it, have seen some that have everything except the Mister Coffee maker attached to them. Reminds me of Harley owners vs Honda Gold Wing's, GOld Wings typically have everything under the sun on the dashboard etc.
 

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This was the standard stock, but I put a speed feed pistol grip stock on it.

Probably not necessary, but I like how it handles. The sure fire is the only part I really thought I needed for a good home gun. Definitely money well spent.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
that's pretty neat

beats hose clamping a mini mag lite to the magazine tube/barrel like I contemplated doing to my 30-30 in Katrina's aftermath.
 

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A much more inexpensive option is to attach a flashlight with factory made clamps. I have run this combo thru several 3 gun matches and training sessions. It works. And you can do it for less than $50.
 

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Is the HD the same as the P model. Or just a modded Express?

Is the HD a cheaper way into the Police series? I have a 870P and wouldn't mind another one provided it's got the same build specs as the P series.

You know, the beefed up parts.
 

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The P series is a much better gun.

Rob
 

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what exactly, is different about the P series?
 

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Rem 870 HD, 18" barrel, 6 shot mag, Surefire G2 light, perfect home defense rig! :rock:

:barf: Would NOT bet my life on a econo mossberg.:barf:
 

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what exactly, is different about the P series?
dfariswheel helped me out to pick my 870 when I had this question a while ago.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 870 Police is made in a different area in the manufacturing facility. I wondered why the 870's ranged fro $200 to $800+ and now I understand why.

Here's his response to me. Thanks again dfariswheel...........

Here's the actual differences between the Express and Police models:

First what REMINGTON says:
REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION

Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns.
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market. It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models. Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.

While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

Here's more info on the differences:
Differences between the Express, Wingmaster, and Police

The Express is Remington's "budget" gun, made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.

How Remington lowered the price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster and Police guns get.

The Express is basically the same forged and milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts.

The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine version, which does NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece barrel. (not 100% sure about this)
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.
Has the locking safety button, although Remington MAY have discontinued it.

The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.

The 870 Police has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Police gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A military-grade parkerized finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut or synthetic stock, with a short police-length fore end.
The Remington “R3” super recoil pad that reduced felt recoil by 30%.
Choices in different stocks, including Speed-feed, and others.
18" to 20" improved cylinder barrel, with a wide choice in sights, including rifle, ghost ring, and luminous.
Heavy-duty magazine spring.
Heavy-duty trigger-sear spring.
Sling swivel mounts.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.

The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" sporting gun, the Police is the top-of-the-line in defense guns.
The 870's are generally considered to be the finest quality pump gun made.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
now I feel like I bought a piece of Remington crap

The standard home defense shotgun after reading the differences between the express and the police and the wingmasters.
 

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The standard home defense shotgun after reading the differences between the express and the police and the wingmasters.
If you got it for self defense, it's perfect. It's meant to work reliably for the home owner who needs it and needs to stake their lives on it.

I just got the police model because I shoot it in matches and abuse it. The Express model is fine for most home owners. They have it, shoot it every now and then and put it away, pull it out again in a month, shoot it, put it away, etc. It sits, ready for your use.

I also hear of people using the Express for competition and they work fine. It's just you may have to replace a spring or part more frequently. That's all. In function, no difference.

The Police model....It's meant to be used by a bunch of uniformed guys who come and go, pass it on to someone else, racked, and loaded and unloaded and practiced with frequently. Beefed up internals for people who don't own it and abuse it for duty work.

Express is fine.
 

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The Express is made from the same forged and milled steel as the Wingmaster and Police models are.

As such, the Express will last just as long, "about" 250,000 rounds.....or more.

I'm hearing rumors that some Express guns, possibly the Tactical models may start coming with a MIM metal trigger group.
The Express plastic is just as tough and long lasting as the compressed powdered aluminum version as used on the Police and Wingmaster.

The Express plastic even has some advantages.
A blow that will break the aluminum guard will just bend the plastic and it tends to return to shape.
It's self lubricating.
There's no surface finish to wear off and look ratty.
 
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