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I have seen many posts which discuss having shot 1 inch or perhaps 2 inch groups at 25 yards. Am I correct in assuming this is always done using a bench rest? Secondly, do expensive bench rests give better performance than inexpensive ones? And lastly, what kind of groups can a good shooter expect to make with a stock semi-auto from standing position at 25 yards? Thanks.
 

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At 25 yards, I can say this with confidence; my groupings are all in my back yard. Thanks to my flinch, they're all in my lower left back yard, to be precise.


Mikey
 

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I'm sure everyone uses a rest of some sort when testing group sizes. I use three shot bags filled with sand.

An "average" shooter should be able to hold the black at 25 yards on a B-8 target. That would be 5.5 inch groups.

High Master level shooters can hold the 10 ring. That would be 3 inch groups.

Now if only I could call myself an "average" shooter.


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Matthew 24:6
"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things MUST take place...
 

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I've shot a 1" group offhand (5 rds. at 25 yds.) exactly three times in my whole life.

I would agree that 5" or less offhand at 25 yds. is suitable for most situations except Camp Perry.
 

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I can't get 1 inch off sandbags! Hell, I have a hard time even seeing the target black while focused on the front sight.

I suppose the free pistol shooters at the Olympics are the best shots in the world. Does anyone know what sort of groups win there?
 

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It's easy to shoot 4-5 inch groups. I just refuse to see all those "fliers." Actually I'm happy to hold a paper plate at 25 yds. Some of the real masters at our club, though, are awesome! All black, all the time.
 

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...I can state with complete confidence that I can shoot a 1" group everytime with my 4" Champion in 45 ACP...



...The problem comes in when I shoot more than a one-shot group!!!

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>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<

!!!Molon Labe'!!!
 

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To answer the original question: Yes, most of the time that people are talking about getting 1-2" groups at 25 yards is when testing their weapon for its accuracy, rather than their own shooting skill. Therefore, they use benchrests of some sort. An example would be the quarantees given by Wilson, Bauer, etc., of 1.5" at 25 yards for certain models. The guns are tested using a Ransom rest.

2nd question: Yes, an expensive device like a Ransom rest will give you better performance, but only if you know how to use it. A Ransom rest can take almost all the human factor out of an accuracy test. However, Ransom rests are devices that require a certain amount of practice with in order to get that degree of reliability. They're also quite expensive. That said, most of us will be quite happy with sandbags.

For that matter, to get good results with sandbags will take some practice.

The amount of difference between the test with a Ransom rest and the test with an experienced shooter using sandbags is not worth the amount of expense for the Ransom, in my opinion.
 

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I have to agree with RANash.Don't waste your money on anything elaborate.I use a rolled up towel on top of my shooting bag.Anything that will make you steady is good.If I can't shoot from a rest,locking down in a kneeling position can be very steady.The important thing is use the rest behind the wrist with handguns.BTW,a Ransom rest can actually shoot worse than the pistol's capability because the frame is being indexed to the target,not the barrel and sights.
 

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Originally posted by rex:
I use a rolled up towel on top of my shooting bag.
It sure is great to know that I'm not the only one too cheap to buy honest-to-goodness sandbags!
I've been using rolled up towels for years with pretty good results (for me anyway). Our club has owned a Ransom Rest and a pretty good selection of grip adapters for many years, but the thing almost never gets used. It's a nice piece of gear, but it seems like most folks don't want to fool with signing it out and setting it up.-TR
 

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Originally posted by h4444:
I guess it wouldn't count if I was shooting a scoped rifle.
Yeh, I guess we can count that. I get fairly decent groups at 25yds with most of my rifles. It's when I move out to 35yds that I get into trouble. But I can keep them all in the black at 35 if I use 1000yd targets!-TR
 

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Tango

Love the towel too,eh? Simplicity at work,like our favorite piece.Actually,why buy sandbags,etc. to do what we do for no added cost.Does this mean we're smarter than the average bear?
 

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Originally posted by imashooter2:

I suppose the free pistol shooters at the Olympics are the best shots in the world. Does anyone know what sort of groups win there?
Koenig and his bianchi gun has shot 6 into 5/8" at 50 prone, not a rest.

geo ><>
 

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If i take my time i can keep'em all in the black shooting openhand. sandbag nice 2-3 shot groups (damm flyers)but my WILSON CQB compact from someone that knows how to shoot a real rest are in the 1" range.I do find my self smiling a lot more now they i've got the CQB.
 

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There are plenty of pistols around that won't shoot 2 inches at 25 from a Ranson rest, let alone over bags.
 

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Originally posted by George Smith:
Koenig and his bianchi gun has shot 6 into 5/8" at 50 prone, not a rest.

geo ><>
Would that be 50 feet or 50 yards?

If it's 50 yards I'll have to call you on that one. There isn't a semi-auto pistol made, nor could one be made that is that accurate. Your talking a six shot group size that is 0.174 larger then the bullet.

Out of a ransom rest, the world's best Bullseye pistolsmiths can only get 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at 50 yards, and that's rare.

Out of a barrel fixture .45acp rounds can only get around 1 inch groups at 50 yards.



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Matthew 24:6
"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things MUST take place...
 
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