[Baer1911]

I'm sure everyone uses a rest of some sort when testing group sizes. I use three shot bags filled with sand.

An "average" shooter should be able to hold the black at 25 yards on a B-8 target. That would be 5.5 inch groups.

High Master level shooters can hold the 10 ring. That would be 3 inch groups.

Now if only I could call myself an "average" shooter.

------------------
Matthew 24:6
"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things MUST take place...

 

[Baer1911]

Originally posted by George Smith:
Koenig and his bianchi gun has shot 6 into 5/8" at 50 prone, not a rest.

geo ><>

Would that be 50 feet or 50 yards?

If it's 50 yards I'll have to call you on that one. There isn't a semi-auto pistol made, nor could one be made that is that accurate. Your talking a six shot group size that is 0.174 larger then the bullet.

Out of a ransom rest, the world's best Bullseye pistolsmiths can only get 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at 50 yards, and that's rare.

Out of a barrel fixture .45acp rounds can only get around 1 inch groups at 50 yards.



------------------
Matthew 24:6
"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things MUST take place...

 

[Baer1911]

Originally posted by JOEE:
BAER 1911, No flame meant but it's unwise to doubt GEORGE SMITH (EGW)

Not realy. the statements I made here ...

"Out of a ransom rest, the world's best Bullseye pistolsmiths can only get 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at 50 yards, and that's rare."

"Out of a barrel fixture .45acp rounds can only get around 1 inch groups at 50 yards."

... are proven facts from tests of some of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the world.

I am at work right now, but when I get home I will post e-mails from two smiths that have done such tests. One inch groups from a barrel fixture are the best a .45acp can commonly do. It is next to impossible to do it with a pistol.

I should add that I'm measuring center to center groups. If you measure inside spread, then less than one inch groups are possible. But you are cheating yourself measuring inside spread.



[This message has been edited by Baer1911 (edited 10-19-2001).]

 

[Baer1911]

Near the bottom of this post is a quote from one of the best, (if not the best) M1911 pistolsmiths to ever lay hands on a pistol. He no longer builds pistols for the public as he has taken a job with a differant entity.

To understand the portion of his e-mail better, I will tell you that this smith and a different one had a little disagreement about results from accurized M1911's and the inherent accuracy of the .45acp cartridge.

One smith claimed his pistols could consistently shoot less then one inch groups at 50 yards. The smith I am quoting has tested many 1911 pistols and has tested the .45acp in a bolt action bench barrel. Groups that measure less then one inch at 50 yards are imposable with a M1911, and near imposable in a bench barrel.

To protect the privacy of both pistolsmiths, I will not reveal their names. I do not know if either one is a member of this forum. If they are they go by an alias because I have not seen them post here using their actual names. You have to take my word as a gentleman that this quote is authentic.

In 1979 and 1980 I worked full time testing ammo and 45s at the USAMU. I leaned alot about how well ammo shoots in the guns and in the bolt action test barrel. In the test barrel the groups are rarely under one inch. In the 45s it is less common (like one every ten years). I think I told you that I didn't think that you could pick ten rounds out of a box that were capable of shooting under a inch at fifty yds.

So as you can see, your chances of getting struck by lightening are better then building a M1911 capable of 5/8 inch groups at 50 yards, or finding ammo that is capable of it.

------------------
Matthew 24:6
"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things MUST take place...